Web Enabled Time/Temp/Humidity and I/O Controller

[Robert L Bass]

Point taken. The discussion is over anyway.

[Robert L Bass]

"Thus ergo?" One of these days I'll actually proof read before hitting send. :^)

[RickH]

nsumes.

y may not

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At first people said ethanol was a net energy saver too. But after a similar analysis (like including the manufacturing chain above in total cost) it is now well-agreed that E85 uses more energy to get that gallon to the pump than the gasoline in the next pump. I say a CFL takes significantly more energy to become a CFL than a light bulb takes to become a light bulb, if you add in the cost of making all the parts required. But political forces keep the E85 refineries going regardless of E85 net carbon unfavorability. But politics trumps a deeper analysis of any so-called energy saving device once the device has been sold as a savior. The laws of thermodynamics still apply, those resistors, capacitors, transistors and diodes still take enrgy to make. But denial is a big part of both sides in the green movement. All those parts didn't simply get there by magic, it could easily take more energy to make just one electrolytic capacitor than an incan. bulb considering the chemical electrolyte production, foil production, plastic production, etc.

[Marc_F_Hult]

And war trumps politics (von Clausewitz's dictum notwithstanding). The reason is that E85 is an attractive energy source in the US is that it incrementally reduces dependence on imported oil and can supply energy for transportation -- look at example of Brazil which became 'energy independent' ca 2006. Have we already forgotten the > 10K lives and ~ $Trillion expenditures for the war in Iraq?

Pop quiz:

1) How many resistors and capacitors is a human life worth? 2) Who's doing the denying here?

( I dunno what all the right answers are, but do know that many of us can recognize some of the wrong answers right quick.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There's another approach (other than E85) to carbon-efficient private transportation. See

Our all-electric 1967 VW beetle is part and parcel of our home automation and distributed DC power system - The car provides ~ 1.6 kWh storage to the home when fully charged and plugged in. And, of course, could be recharged using renewable and(or) non-renewable energy resources.

And yes, it will have one of the CAi Networks WebControl devices that is the subject of this thread.

HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

[Marc_F_Hult]

Time permitting, I'll post a picture of the WebControl (80mm x 85mm x18mm) in its native steel case (100mm x 100mm x 35mm) stacked on a comparably sized Netgear GS-105 hub (95 x 100mm x 25mm) and Comtrol Device-Master AIR (92mm x

87mm x 48mm) which provides WI-FI and RS-xxx in a 100mm x 100mm footprint. This combo allows you to communicate with to a computer, two WebControls and a serial device such as Peter Anderson's data acquisition modules via WI-FI.

(This matches almost exactly the footprint of a Pico-ITX (100mm x 72mm) with the inevitable I/O connectors. These PC's are still too pricey,

but they'll get 'there' eventually. )

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

[Marc_F_Hult]

I can confirm that the WebControl devices being shipped by the Amazon supplier have the same v02.03.03 firmware as what

(the manufacturer) upgrades exist units to. I recently had two boards that I purchased about a year ago upgraded. CAi Networks did them for free for me in appreciation of my testing of various 1-wire devices and Honeywell humidity devices to them, but usually charge $20 + shipping which is more than 1/2 the price of the board without case through the Amazon supplier.

FWIW, I found that the board works OK with the HIH-3600 humidity sensor as well as the HIH-4000 series specified. The bug with the 1-wire appears fixed. Previously, the board would only accommodate Maxim's low-accuracy ( +/- 2C) DS1822 "Econo" device. It now also works with the "High-Precision" ( LOL ! ) DS18B20 ( +/- 0.5C)

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

[Robert L Bass]

Ethanol may not be a net energy saver but it does reduce dependance on middle eastern oil. That, IMO, is a good thing.

I spend a lot of time in Brazil, where my car and my motorcycle run on a mix of gasoline and alcohol (made from cheap sugar cane; not overpriced corn sugar). The cost is less than straight gasoline and milage is not significantly different. The Brazilian government-owned oil comany, Petrobras, claims that production costs -- both financial and environmental -- of ethanol are very close to those for gasoline.

Brazil does not spend one real (pronounced "hey, Al") on Iranian oil. This is also, IMO, a good thing.

That's a bit of a stretch, friend.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Ethanol may be a good idea, but not as the US has pursued it. Sugar cane is a good choice; corn is a lousy choice. Remember the fertilizer comes from middle eastern oil... it takes a lot of effort to show a net benefit on that one.

Algae is looking *very* promising, as a better US approach.

[RickH]

I'm in the middle of corn country (IL) and there is only one independent gas station (Gas City) that actually has E85 pumps available. Additionally the price of the E85 there varies widely and is not much better than regular, (unless regular goes back over $4), the E85 will be $3.50, right now its only a dime cheaper than regular and ouputs less power when burned. If E85 is inconvenient to get in IL corn country then I can only imagine how hard it would be to find an E85 pump in another state with no political skin in the game. Brazil is on the equator and can utilize sugar cane, both those aspects tip the energy-to-produce scale in favor of E85, but we are not allowed to import Brazillian E85 (as much as the Brazillians would like to sell it to us). If E85 was really attractive in US then it wouldn't need govt subsidies, it wouldn't raise the price of food and feed corn, and every company would be jumping on it to make a profit. The fact is it's not an attractive fuel.

[Robert L Bass]

We got a lot of fertilizer out of the previous administration as well. :^)

The problem with ethanol is the US sugar industry. More specifically, the complex relationship between agribusiness and the US government makes progress almost impossible.

There is a false premise that many in Congress claim we are supporting "free market" enterprise. In a truly free market we would be importing Brazilian sugar by the boatload. That would bring the cost down at the pump *and* reduce our dependence on middle-eastern oil.

[Josepi]

Why not just lower the world barrel price of petroleum instead of trying to avoid the high prices the middle east charges?

Me th>>

[Josepi]

Perhap learn the secrets of Outlook Express that you are using. Killfilter the thread. One click and the whining can stop.

[Robert Green]

Yes, so true, and so responsible for so many blown motherboards and add in cards. I used to participate in a PC user group helpline and I recall a lot of calls from people who thought the machine was off when they hit the switch, yanked the cover, popped in a card or fiddle with a drive and then it woke up and burned up.

When I bought a 10K RPM WD Raptor drive and a dual head video card, the case stayed terribly hot after shutdown, with the sensors showing that the chip temps spiked once the main fans stopped. Fortunately, the low voltage that's always available on an ATX system allowed me to use 5VDC timed fans to keep extracting hot air from the system after it was powered down.

I only ever *popped* a PCI video card that wasn't much good, but developed the rule that when the cover's off, the cord is pulled out of the back. Like Cpl. Dwayne Hicks said in "Aliens" about dropping a nuke from orbit, "It's the only way to be sure!" Before that, I had put some case screws on the shelf that hung over the open PC, listened to some loud rock and roll and the damn screw danced into the machine and killed a tape backup card

As for WOL and other methods of waking the motherboard up, some machines, cards, OS's and BIOS's are definitely better than others. The newer the machine, I've found, the more likely it is to actual work.

Still waiting for my temp and humidity sensors to arrive before I start playing around with my WebControl board. Assembling as much info on CGI and micro-web servers as I can while I wait.

-- Bobby G.

[Marc_F_Hult]

Yes, we seem to be circling around and round ... ;-)

Some of my previous posts from January on the IP POWER 9258T and the WebControl are appended below.

(Google seems to have stripped off the message ID's or I'd jist cite them rather than the entire text. Or just googlegroupgoogle on 9258T

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Newsgroups: comp.home.automation From: Marc_F_Hult Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 09:07:56 -0500 Local: Fri, Jan 2 2009 9:07 am Subject: Re: Programmable Sequencing Switch? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:43:07 GMT, "Bob Day" wrote in message :

I have an Aviosys IP POWER 9258T and it can do what you want for four outputs. Aviosys also has eight output model(s). The 9258's are available Buy-It-Now for $95, shipping to US included, on eBay. Search for IP POWER

9258* or INTERNET POWER CONTROLLER

The IP POWER 9258 uses mechanical relays rather than SCRs to control power to the AC receptacles, and so can be modified to provide SPST switching of a signal or DC rather than 120VAC. Also, I prefer not to add devices to my system that depend on AC power, so I was pleased to see that it runs internally entirely on 5vdc from a small, easily-bypassed, internal AC-to-5VDC converter.

It is readily programmed though web-based GUI, by sending simple http command strings, or a VB/.net etc programming

HTH ... Marc

Visit my Home Automation and Electronics Internet Porch Sale at

Marc_F_Hult

Newsgroups: comp.home.automation From: "Bob Day" Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:23:02 GMT Local: Fri, Jan 2 2009 7:23 pm Subject: Re: Programmable Sequencing Switch? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Marc, thanks! I'll check it out.

-- Bob Day

Newsgroups: comp.home.automation From: Marc_F_Hult Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:02:01 -0500 Local: Fri, Jan 9 2009 7:02 pm Subject: Re: Programmable Sequencing Switch? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Bob:

Also:

If you are willing to add your own solid state relays and(or) relay drivers + mechanical relays, the " WebControl timer temperature humidity I/O controller " is a TCP/IP device that might suit your needs.

It provides timers and scheduling, NTP time synchronization, email notification, eight TTL outputs, up to eight 1-wire temperature sensors, one Honeywell humidity sensor, three analog in, and 8 TTL inputs.

Sells for $25- $49 (compute-aid.com, eBay, Amazon; sensors not included).

A metal case is also available for $15

NB: As yet, I have no hands-on experience with this device, but have ordered one.

HTH ... Marc

Marc_F_Hult

[Christopher Glaeser]

What is the part number for the digital I/O connector?

Best, Christopher

[Robert Green]

Sophie, of their sales team, gave me this part number:

TYCO ELECTRONICS - 1658622-3 and said it was available from Newark Electronics. Actually, she just said "Newark" and I assumed the "Electronics" part but I never followed up because I found that an XT era game port/joystick adapter cable also fits and I had a few in my junkbox.

-- Bobby G.

[Christopher Glaeser]

Thanks. I found the connector at Newark. Now to locate a short piece of ribbon cable. Would be nice if this connector were similar to the other screw connectors on the board. Also, would be nice if this device could be powered via POE. Still, can't beat the price with a stick. :)

Best, Christopher

[Robert Green]

Send me your snail mail address via email and I will shoot you a length or two. I've used up my game port connectors but I've got plenty of 20 conductor ribbon I can spare that you can peel off four conductors from. Email address is munged - change 00's to OO's to get through.

Vendors do mysterious things. If I didn't already have some old PC game port cables I probably would have paid three times the going rate just to have the cable and connector available at time and place of purchase. That was one of the things I really liked about fellow newsgrouper Jeff Volp's XTB-II series. He sold the required cabling and likely accessories all at the time of purchase, cutting the hassle factor immensely. And cheaper than I could have gotten the stuff nearly anywhere else.

WebControl would probably serve themselves well by making the temp sensors and the humidity sensors available through their Amazon storel. Their tech support person Sophie did allude to some pretty serious restrictions placed on them by Amazon like not being able to even point to their own site's URL for the documentation. I know Ebay used to have similar restrictions, but almost any big Ebay store nowadays seems to expect people to bypass Ebay after the first sale and they post their own store URL's freely on their Ebay listings.

My Honeywell humidity sensors arrived today, so I'm going to get to hooking them up RSN, providing everything else cooperates. So far, that's not the case. The car's developed a water leak somewhere, and is beginning to grow mold I can't see but sure can smell. My security DVR decides to stop recording randomly, which is quite annoying since some vandals stole all the local street signs last night - while my new DVR was locked up!!! I've alreadly returned it once because the drive cable was melted. This means running all sorts of tests. )-: Electronics requires too much care and feeding!

Well, I'll let you know a) the Honeywell sensors even work (they came from a guy in Canada, not a big electronics house. They were half price, which means only one of them probably works, b) if the two unit's readings agree with each other and c) if they agree with any of the other humidity sensors in the house (none of which agree exactly with each other, but are mostly within 10% of each other. Mostly).

-- Bobby G.

[Jim Hewitt]

Well, I got one for Christmas - from my wife! So now I don't have to think up projects to convince her - but I'm still thinkig up things to do.

Any progress reports possbily available elsehwere?

Jim

[Robert Green]

I wish I did. I've run into one of those stretches where things seem to be breaking down faster than I can fix them. The incredibly, continuous, way below zero weather we've been have has caused some pretty interesting failures. Haven't even tested the dang humidistat or temp sensors to ensure they work correctly.

I should probably look up the old threads concerning back-stabbed outlets and hard-of-hearing smoke alarms and add some new information. Had a backstabber get so hot, it began melting wires. The hard of hearing smoke alarm apparently goes off for no particular reason and at the oddest hours of the day so my elderly friend has yanked the batteries. Not the outcome I want.

But all the pieces of the web controller are in place now - got a small Ethernet switch and some old laptops with network connection to create a "sandbox" to play with the unit - the final pieces have arrived today. I found some 8.4VDC/0.6A switching power supplies to power the board. Didn't want to use the old non-switching adapters I had lying around because I didn't have two match ones and I couldn't bring myself to cut a perfectly good, strained-relief plug from one of my junk bin units.

These are Canon brand units that actually screw together so they might even be repairable or filterable if they turn out to be too noisy, electrically.

I just checked these out on the bench and they are voltage regulated to within .02 of a volt. I found that they are very useful for running 80mm PC case fans at whisper quiet level, and I have begun mounting these to various TV's and amplifiers. I thought there was something wrong with them at first. I plugged them in after stripping and tinning the leads and then went to test the polarity so I could mark the positive lead red. Well, my electronics bench bottle of red nail polish had dried out, so I put some red heat shrink on the positive lead. Just because reversed polarity can kill things, I checked one more time with an bicolor LED and resistor that I use to test polarity and it glowed for a second or two and then went out. Put the voltmeter on it again, and it showed exactly 8.40VDC and then went "hunting." Turns out I had accidentally unplugged the power supply and I was running off voltage stored in the caps.

I found another use for these PS's. The IR thermometer I got for Christmas (great toy, under $20 from Ebay, hundreds of uses - even SWMBO has found uses for it. Any, the thermometer was showing much higher temperatures than I thought on everything from LCD TV's to amps. (Sony appears to synchronize their warranties with how long their gear will last without aux. cooling.)

I had a big Sony amp that would always trigger the thermal protector after an hour or so of Pink Floyd, but since I added an 80mm fan running at 9V (higher, actually because that PS is not regulated) it hasn't shut down once. Now the speakers are the first to pop a breaker, but I don't think cooling will help them as much. (-: So anyway, I'm going to order some more because they spin the fans fast enough to move significant air but slowly enough so that they can hardly be heard. Now you know why I am not yet on the web controller project. I'm easily sidetracked! But I think I can finally get a test unit rolling tonight.

Got a bunch of 6 & 9VDC DPDT mini relays (not sure which will work better), some diodes to prevent the relays coils from spiking, some quick disconnects and other miscellany because I like to be able to switch out things like the main board without having to unscrew wires.

I also have buckets of IDE hard drive cables because I do a lot of PC repair and that's a commodity that seems to grow and grow in the junk bin. Not sure how I want to connect the sensor wires. I might use the tons of printer and serial cables I have lying around or I might get a "daughterboard" for the controller that's got a 40 pin header to use ribbon cables. Either way, I'm designing the unit so it's "snap out-able" so if anything goes wrong, replacement's a snap. (-:

I wish I could give you an update on the board and all the things I have planned, but spare time seems to have completely disappeared since I retired. I'm still trying to figure out how that happened - it seems to violate some sort of law of physics. That's more than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure.

(-:

Soon, very soon.

-- Bobby G.