Ventless Propane Stoves

[Country]

I'm seriously considering replacing my pellet stove that I use to heat the downstairs of my house with a ventless propane stove.

The pellet stove is to problematic and when it gets to the point it needs cleaning it will dump still smoldering ash into the ash pan and too much smoke gets into the house. And when the wind blows in a certain direction hard enough in the winter it effects how easily the smoke gets out the chimney and backs some of that up into the stove and some of that gets into the house and the stove doesn't burn properly. And when an igniter goes out and has to be replaced, it almost always happens in the middle of the night and is a PITA to replace.

My problem is that I don't know much about those propane stoves. How much crap does the ventless ones put in the air inside the house? I don't think you can have combustion efficient enough to not put some smoke or contaminants in the air. Do they break down all the time too?

In the stores I've visited, I've only seen the ventless ones. Do they make one that I can add a chimney too and vent the smoke outside?

I don't have the most air tight house in the world but it's not too drafty either.

I don't have a propane tank so I will need to get one. I would also get a CO detector, an O2 detector and and see if there is something that will detect a gas leak. One stove I looked at already has a low oxygen detector but I would want to make sure I have some sort of low oxygen warning system if the stove doesn't have it or maybe even double up on it even if the stove does.

What other questions can you folks thing of I should be asking.

Any tips and advice would be appreciated.

-C-

[Jim Elbrecht]

This is one of *those* annual threads. I predict a long one.

I went from wood to ventless propane 12 years ago. at the time it was a complete win. I was buying wood and I got more heat for less money buying propane.

Propane has gone way up, but I think overall it is pretty close now, moneywise.

What I *don't* have is work, mess, and uneven heating. When I want heat I have it-- and when I don't, I turn it off.

-snip-

Mine adds moisture. [which is welcome because the rest of the house is heated with hot air. It is in a room with 6 windows and a door & they never steam up-- so the amount of moisture is not harmful.]

It is a dust magnet, but the dust is clean. As far as I see, there are no contaminants in the house.

The first year after I bought mine I 'had' to buy a new igniter. [$32] When it appeared to be bad the next fall I got looking around & saw that the common cause of problems was a speck of dust. A blast with a can of air cures them. Now I get 5-6 years out the igniter. Other than that, I dust it each fall with a shop vac & I've wiped it down with stove black a few year ago.

They do. But there isn't any smoke-- you're venting moisture and hot air.

O2 won't hurt--- but the CO & explosive gas detector is an absolute must.

Some operate on a thermostat that uses degrees. Others have 'low-medium-high' dials. I wanted a thermostat with degrees, but the missus fell in love with the design of the one we got & it had a dial. It works fine.

Check with you building inspector. [and propane supplier] In my area there is a limit to the number of BTU's a ventless can have determined by the size of the room.

There is a world of difference in propane suppliers. Some will give you a great deal on an appliance in order to hook you. I got a free water heater once from one. a year later my contract with them was up and I told them I was moving to someone else & they lowered their prices.

Jim

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

If you have soot, then your flame/air supply needs adjusting. Or maybe you're burning up your logs-- are they charring?

Jim

[chaniarts]

the logs are ceramic. i doubt that they'd char.

a good fireplace will have some yellow flames along with the blue ones for looks. yellow means incomplete combustion, so there must be something that is left over.

[Tony Miklos]

Please tell us what brand and model pellet stove you have so we know what to stay away from!

[Tony Miklos]

Be sure to crunch some numbers first, around here with the cost of propane so high, it's almost as expensive as resistive electric heat. For me to fork out the money for a propane heater makes it a deal breaker.

[krw]

Propane rarely makes sense BTU/BTU. I like the propane fireplace because it only warms the area where we're sitting (which may even put it on par with the heat pumps), looks nice, and is a *whole* lot easier than wood.

[Ed Pawlowski]

No comparison. The vented are no where near the 99% plus of the ventless. The vented are only 85% or so.

[Ed Pawlowski]

My son has one in his house. He's used it for the past 10 years with no problems.

The main savings is that he does not have to heat the rest of the house very much since it is an old, big, utility user. Propane is not cheap, so run the numbers first if this is the primary fuel.

[DerbyDad03]

...

I used to work on hobby-like projects with a friend in his garage. We heated the space with a beat-up old kerosene heater and a really old wrought iron 2 burner NG gas stove top. Toss in spray painting large objects with the doors closed and the burners on, add a bit acetone to clean our tools, some carbon fiber, fiberglass and bondo dust, and I've often wondered why I can still think, never mind why am I still alive.

We'd open the door every now and then and watch the cloud of fumes roll out of the garage.

...

...

I've read that the condensate water is pretty acidic and proabably not good for vegetables (or direct consumption) due to the trace toxins left over from the incomplete burning of the NG. Mine drains into the utility tub where it goes off to the water treatment plant for them to deal with.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I imagine they could do that years ago. Today, just ask for an MSDS sheet. They have them and will send it to you.

Google is your friend

SECTION II: COMPONENTS AND HAZARDS COMPONENT FORMULA CAS NO. VOL% (TYP.) TLV (PPM) DOT# Methane CH4 74-82-8 93.5 N/A UN1971 Ethane C2H6 74-84-0 3.8 N/A UN1035 Propane C3H8 74-98-6 1.0 1,000 UN1978 i-Butane C4H10 75-28-5 0.1 N/A UN1969 n-Butane C4H10 106-97-8 0.1 800 UN1011 i-Pentane C5H12 78-78-4

[gregz]

Electric is way less than propane here. My brother saves money using electric rather than oil furnace.

As far as saving money, I will chop wood out of the backyard.

Greg

[DerbyDad03]

There is one village in one town in our county that has "village electric". Every house in that village is all electric because it is so much cheaper than any other source of fuel.

On the borders of the village, the houses right across the street use natural gas because using all electric from the Big Behemoth Gas and Electric company would be too expensive.

The Real Estate ads for houses in the village all proudly proclaim "Village Electric!" in their description so people will know which side of the street the houses are on.

[Country]

Thanks to everyone for responding. I won't make a decision until I get an HVAC person out here and see what he says.

-C-

[Jim Yanik]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Natural gas is not the same as propane.

[gregz]

That reminds me, I have to check why there are a few huge chunks of coal down in my backyard. I'm thinking they put those there for some reason. Maybe I got a vein somewhere!! There is some small surface pieces near my side chimney clean out. Why there I have no idea. I did have a bunch of small coal pieces in my basement ceiling. Trapped in the aluminum ceiling near the former coal Shute from the early 50's.

Greg

[Ed Pawlowski]

No shit, that is why I posted the MSDS for natural gas.

Natural Gas Material Safety Data Sheet

This is propane

INGREDIENT NAME /CAS NUMBER PERCENTAGE OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV Propane / 74-98-6 .?????????????........87.5 -100 Simple asphyxiant Ethane / 74-84-0 .????????????????. 0 - 7.0 1, Simple asphyxiant Propylene / 115-07-1 ??????????????... 0 - 5.0 Simple asphyxiant Butanes / 106-97-8 ??.?????????????. 0 - 2.5 Simple asphyxiant Ethyl Mercaptan / 75-08-1????????????.. 0 - 50 ppm 0.5 ppm 0.5 ppm

[Jim Yanik]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news: [e-mail]:

the thread TITLE is ".....propane stoves",so why post about natural gas?

[bud--]

He replied to "They refused to tell me the concentrations of various impurities normally found in natural gas."

It is still quoted above.

[mike]

I mis-spoke when I said that. I asked the gas company the impurities in the water coming out of my furnace as a result of burning THIER natural gas. Failing that, I asked a second question. What's the concentration of various impurities in the EXACT natural gas supplied to MY home by MY gas company.

Average numbers for someone else's gas are interesting, but I wondered if the gas coming into MY house had issues I should be worried about when converted to heat and water.

The interesting part of all this was not the numbers, but the fact that they wouldn't tell me the numbers.