Using the Circuit Breaker as an On-Off Switch

[Lawrence Wasserman]

That sounds pretty cool. Can you give a specific example (temperatures, quantities, etc.) where this will happen?

[Bo Williams]

I didn't know there were switch-rated circuit breakers and non-switch-rated circuit breakers. I know that now, as several people pointed that out, even before I got to your condescending diatribe.

I welcome opportunities to fill gaps in my ignorance. It's not necessary to be nasty when you perceive such a gap.

[...]

[w_tom]

There is always one who feels it is 'adult' to demand political correctness. Adults never need politically correct posts. The post stands technically correct. If it insults Bo Williams, then that part of Bo Williams is bluntly reminded that no intent to be condescending existed in any word. It was posted exactly as was necessary to make a technical point. Adults say, "Good, I now understand". Lesser people worry about insults - that actually did not exist in that post.

Junk science reasoning was demonstrated bluntly and accurately without wasting words on how it might be emotionally perceived. Those who must have everything spun in a politically correct world will be upset with the post and therefore expose themselves. In some quarters, you can get arrested for exposing yourself.

The only part 'nasty' in that post was how Bo Williams emotionally perceived it. A principle of logical thinking - that something must exist both theoretically and experimentally - should never be posted any other way but straight up and blunt. Some find that painful - like hard whiskey. Sorry you worry too much about how it hurts your throat.

But fact rema> I didn't know there were switch-rated circuit breakers and

[Bo Williams]

[snip much more blather]

Many adults learn manners, too, present company obviously excepted. Bye, now. Take the last word (or 500, as seems to be your wont).

[xrongor]

while you may have found some info proving me wrong (which nobody else had done previously, and clearly the savings for turning it off arent that much) i think its ironic you blame me for having the ego...

and yes, it appears i was wrong. so there. now your ego is placated. do you feel better, smarter, faster?

randy

[xrongor]

ya know i did this to shut you up, now i regret it. your link doesnt say anything. it has no bearing on anything.

go away.

randy

[Bob K 207]

surely you're joking? my electric & gas utilties give rebates for devices that they do not sell.

[Bob K 207]

heater set backs typically reduce total energy consumption & do little for load shifting

Peak electrical (summer) afternoon Peak electrical (winter) early evening

Max peak is typically in summer not winter

[Bob K 207]

ok randy here's the answer

absolutely correct, you've got part of the answer

no, the energy lost during the cool down is the only energy that needs to be replaced. Your thermal inertia concept is flawed if you think there is a extra penalty for letting the temp fall further.

If the tank cools 20 degs & it takes 10000 btu's to bring it back up to temp; then it will only take twice that energy 20000 btu's if the tank is allowed to fall 40 degs.

The small (if not trivial) energy savings is had because a cooler tank (one that is closer to room temp) looses less enery than a hotter tank. If the tank lost all its heat (fell to room temp) it would stop loosing heat to the environment.

Electrical water heaters typically are well insulated & loose heat rather slowly. The only energy saved during the "off period" would be the energy consumed in the cycling (if any) that would have occured to "maintain" temp during the day.

By your logic I wouldn't save any energy if I turned the thing off for a week because "I had to make up all that thermal inertia"?

A cooler house (or water heater) looses less heat to the surroundings.

That's why I turn the heater WAY down when I'm away from the mountain cabin :)

[w_tom]

[zxcvbob]

But all circuit breakers *might* be switch duty, you don't know until you look at the tiny label on them to see if they are SWD listed. Many plain old breakers are SWD listed (or FLD).

Since the breakers in question are FPE's, I wouldn't use them as switches anyway, but that's a diffrerent issue entirely.

Bob

[Jeff Wisnia]

I got the pun..A good one too...

************************************

There's no simple answer to your question because there are LOTS of factors which must be considered, IIRC they all contribute to the "Mpemba effect" which ex[lains why hot water freeze faster than cold.

I'm just a flatfooted EE who forgot most of the physics I learned years ago, but Googling "hot water freezes faster than cold" will get you a day's worth of reading on the subject.

This URL I particularly like 'cause it's part of the "Marilyn is Wrong" series. (Marilyn vos Savant, that is.) It has a lot of links to other sites on the subject:

This URL will give you more than you wanted to know and choke you with details and references:

Hey, I just noticed the /baez/ in that URL. A few backwards steps will reveal that it's John Baez, a physicist at University of California, Riverside, who is a relative of Joan Baez, the entertainer. I had the pleasure of knowing Joan briefly in the 1950s around the time she began her career by singing in Harvard Square coffee houses. Her father was a physicist at Harvahd back then.

Enough already?

Jeff

[w_tom]