tight lug nuts

[J Burns]

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

[gfretwell]

A 3/4" impact wrench will spin them off but you should be able to crack them loose with a breaker bar and your pipe. Use a 6 point socket.

[J Burns]

I borrowed a 1/2" breaker bar and a 6-point thick-wall socket designed for impact wrenches. I understand one advantage is that if you hammer on the breaker bar, the socket will transmit shock to the wheel around the nut. It seems to transmit the shock pretty well but hasn't worked so far.

My BIL has a 3/4" set. I used to use it on farm equipment. That might work.

Dadblamed tired dealer! I wonder if the lugs and nuts are permanently damaged from the stress.

[Steve Stone]

It is a common problem. I've broken/ torn apart factory provided combo jack handles/lug nut removal tools trying to remove lug nuts after tires have been touched by service stations or dealerships.

Steve

[Ken Olson]

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to cause some expansion.

[Stormin Mormon]

I second the motion, to have the last mechanic sent to prison, or at least reeducation camp.

I've had some success with 25 inch breaker bar, and black impact sockets.

No clue what it is with mechanics who think that max tight is the only way to go.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[Stormin Mormon]

Wow, that must be tight. Are you pressing down on the wrench, to the left of the lug? I find that works, compared to lifting up to the right.

On lug nuts. If the wheels are aluminum, the tire places want to recheck the lugs after 25 to 50 miles. This is a real concern. I did a rear wheel brake pad slap one time, and figured they were fine. Two days later, I had a rather serious shake. Took it to my garage, and he noted that the right front tire was out of round. On the way to the junkyard to get another tire, the left rear fell off.

Mechanic had not asked if I did anything to the wheels lately "Well, replace brake pads in the back" and had not pulled the snap caps to see if the lugs were tight.

I share the blame, I didn't recheck torque after 50 miles.

[snafu]

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut. So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.

[Stormin Mormon]

Years ago, someone mentioned the hot wax method. When a nut and bolt is rotted on, the trick to heat it up with a torch. Of course, mechanics the world around use heat. But the trick is as it's cooling, light a candle and drip wax onto the thread. At first, the wax disappears into vapor. But as it cools, it gets to the magic temperature. The wax sucks into the threads, and acts as a lubricant. Wax is slippery, try rubbing a candle some time, to see for yourself.

I've not tried this, though I have wondered if there is any truth to this. I'd really love to know if this works or not. Please try it, just to humor an old man.

BTW, I did try soaking a totally rusted pair of fence pliers in concentrated hydrochloric acid. It did eat the rust off, and now I've got a working pair of pliers. I never thought that would work.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[trader_4]

A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked. Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right amount".

Which goes to show you, even the right eqpt is useless in the hands of an idiot. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench and just do it based on experience. Haven't had a problem yet.

[Stormin Mormon]

My friend (who's not all that wise some times) had a Buick station wagon for hauling his wife and kids. Fondly called the BMW, Big Mormon Wagon. One time he bought a set of the small steel lug nuts, because "didn't like" the tall lug nuts with the closed tops. With the decorator aluminum wheels, they have a deep well for the lug nuts. I told him that was a terrible idea. Anyhow, the steel lugs were so far down in, a wrench or socket tip didn't engage enough of the lug to remove them. We were able to remove all but a couple, and he ended up grinding the lug and stud off with my die grinder from HF. Remove the wheel, go to the store and buy new studs to bang in. And then go back to the tall lug nuts.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[clare]

They are NOT mechanics - they are untrained tire installers.- AKA hacks.

[clare]

As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3 miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground- retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so equipped.

[clare]

Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else. Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

[Stormin Mormon]

Hope the friend asked the manager to loosen all the lugs and then retorque.

Agree, about the idiot part.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[Stormin Mormon]

Did you ask the customers to bring in their aluminum wheels the next day for retorque?

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

.

[Ed Pawlowski]

He may be an idiot using that demo, but . . . Don't blame the installer. I had lug bolts om my Karmann Ghia. I'd put them on with very little torque, but they'd be a bear to get off later. I'd have to put a pipe on the socket bar and jump on it for some.

The bolts and holes were perfectly machined. You could put them in by hand to the last 1/8th turn with the wrench.

[Mr.E]

An air impact wrench will probably loosen them. I would take it back to the tire shop, have them break the nuts loose and torque them myself before leaving. If you do not have a torque wrench, then use a cross wrench to retighten until you can get to a wrench. Most lug nuts tighten

76 to 80 ftlbs torque. You will have a real problem if you have a flat on the road.

[RobertMacy]

I accidently misplaced my very expensive Krauter electric pliers outside, then found them a year later seized solid. just kept them mourning their loss. Then, after watching the 'remetallization' process our Brulin's quaternary sanitizer was doing [Unicide 256] soaked the pliers in the compound,not only did some/much of the rust turn back into metal, but the pliers started to open very stiffly. Kept working on them and now have my pliers back!

Have you ever tried Whink [mild hydrofluoric acid] to remove rust? Be sure to wear gloves! Eats under your fingernails, but you don't realize it until an hour later when it feels like your nails are being constantly ripped off. So mild doesn't do much damage to porcelain - tried to etch glass and it won't.

[Stormin Mormon]

Nice to know some thing works.

As for HF acid, I refuse to get near the stuff. Some HVAC guys use that on coils, since they end up looking shiny and bright. I like the alkaline cleaner, which works nicely.