SIMPLE electrical job. Cost via electrician? chg direct-wire to plug & socket

Anecdotal evidence of "all the time". What a great idea. Astrology works "all the time".

Like RBM I am commenting on NEC requirements.

Strictest? It is the interpretation that any competent electrician would use.

Nothing has changed. Cord is tested primarily for flexibility. Tests of, for instance, romex are much more extensive. Cord is not intended to be a permanent wiring method and is not allowed "as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure."

RBM provided a connection method that is code compliant. The same method could be done cheaper if built from parts if you are doing it yourself. The OP asked about having an electrician do it. An electrician is real unlikely to wire a cord and plug unless they have cleared their method with the AHJ. The AHJ is not available.

And in the US a 20A receptacle wired with #12 wire but on a 15A breaker is a code violation.

Reply to
bud--
Loading thread data ...

This is the code:

Nec 422.16 Flexible cords

(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent interchange or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration or (2) to facilitate the removal or disconnection of appliances that are fastened in place, where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance or repair and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection.

Nec handbook note: It should be understood that a cord-connected appliance is required to be specifically designed mechanically and electrically, to be readily removable for maintenance and repair.

This is the Clare interpretation of the code:

" If you have a "compliant coupling" on the ductwork to eliminate vibration, the flexible cord is allowed under the code for the same reason.. Immaterial that the rigid gas line passes vibration to the house. No inspector can say FOR SURE that the cord is not there for vibration reasons - and if it is allowed for that purpose there is no SAFETY reason for denying it - hense the overlooking of the "infraction" by so many inspectors."

REALY??? (ROFL) Note all the straw men inserted.

Reply to
RBM

The reality is, these things generally do not get inspected since it happens after the CO but if this was done with the proper cord connector (not a Romex clamp) and the cord was of appropriate size, an inspector might hold his nose and walk away from it, only thinking about the worse alternatives homeowners do like backfeeding dryer outlets.

Reply to
gfretwell

I was wondering where you were? I agree, the fact is today, many central heating systems have some type of Molex quick disconnects for parts of the system, like the burner or pumps, etc. that do need to be disconnected for service or repair.

Reply to
RBM

That would be up to the Legislature of whatever state. The NEC is a legal document that sets up minimum standards. Most of Nebraska is under the 2011 code now. It's enforced by state inspectors. Lincoln, Omaha, and a few other towns have their own inspectors and special rules if they chose. I do irrigation wiring. The legislature is considering putting us under the code along with those wiring grain handling equipment. There hasn't been any inspections of either for years as far as I know.

Reply to
Dean Hoffman

You don't get sued for not following code, you get sued when it can be demonstrated that not following code injured someone. In most states inspectors are covered by sovereign immunity. When you sue them you are suing the state and all the legal talent they are willing to bring to bear. YMMV as to how that might go. On the other hand the CBO or whomever is the designated AHJ can pretty much decide how his jurisdiction interprets the code and in a lot of places, what the code actually is. Florida has a "unified building code" and all AHJs are supposed to be reading from the same book in each jurisdiction but there are different "interpretations" of that same code.

Reply to
gfretwell

Many local codes are union driven. Using conduit or BX makes it more difficult for the DIYer too, thus more work for the union electricians.

NYC is a solid union town. We've exhibited at trades shows there and everything had to be handled by union people. That included plugging in a lamp into an extension cord.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

This thing pulls (solenoid, thermostat upstairs) like nothing, 5 watts maybe?

I looked in that spirally flexible metal 3/4-inch diameter tube that encloses the power wires to the wall, at the end of it, where I could see the wires themselves. Two shielded wires, I think, don't recall seeing a third.

Anyway, I'll check out "teck cable", size 14 or 12 (the lower, the bigger, right?).

Thanks,

David

Reply to
David Combs

OK, but how to attach the (male) twist-lock plug to the end of my

100' #12 extension cord?

Thanks,

David

Reply to
David Combs

Not now -- but that situation (furnace pluged into an outlet) is what I *WANT* -- so when the neighborhood power goes out, and it's 15F outside, I can UNplug the furnace from the wall and PLUG it into a heavy-duty extension-cord that goes to my little electric generator -- which I'd run for half an hour every two hours or so to keep the house warm and (via 2nd extension cord to the generator) the refrigerator cold.

David

Reply to
David Combs

Well, mine's 12gauge, but each end looks the same as on an 18.

David

Reply to
David Combs

HEY, I LIKE THAT!!!

David

Reply to
David Combs

Man, that's sure an interesting approach!

David

Reply to
David Combs

OK -- long, long ago *I* was a "ham" (but got bored because all that the people talked about was their equipment. But of course if I had *designed* and built my own transmitter, I wouldn't be bored, but fascinated!)

So I know what a DPDT switch is OK.

But what's a "center-off" one?

Or, at bare minimum, a "break before make"? (Well, that one seems self-evident. Question: aren't ALL dbl-throw switches break before make? I guess not. Please elaborate.)

Thanks!

David

Reply to
David Combs

Thanks for mentioning that.

Well, right now that fan is not *in* the system -- it's directly wired to the wall, and is on ALL THE TIME -- all four seasons.

(That was the strong advice of the plumber.)

Now, not only is having it running all the time going to wear out a lot sooner, but motors take more than a few watts. 24/7/52 can add up to a *LOT* of money.

(I just read an article somewhere that claimed that running a not-too-big fan 100% of the time came to $5,000 per year! Even if that's exaggerated, it's still probably over $1,000. Should get close and see if I can read the watts rating.)

Anyway, I think (unless you guys say not to) I'd like that fan to run only when the furnace is "on" (burning gas). Now, that would require some kind of solenoid-switch controlled by the same circuit that controls the opening of the gas-line into the burner, probably working at the same voltage as THAT (gas) solenoid, with at 110v switch open and closed by the new solenoid.

Hmmm. That controlled-switch would be inserted in the middle of the current power-line going from the wall to the fan.

So there'd *still* be no *electrical* connection between the fan and the furnace.

Now, it'd sure be nice if the current "oompf" controlling the gas-solenoid was strong enough to also control the second one! Would make life a lot easier than it might otherwise be.

(My "oompf" -- what's the correct terminology (or concept) for that. I guess it would be a perfectly, infinitely constant voltage source, regardless of the amps or load put on it.)

So maybe the "above" response is NOT a moot point, after all!

Hey, thanks for making me think!

David

Reply to
David Combs

...

"Wall wart". I tried using that term with an electrician. Had no idea what I was talking about. (I thought it was a universally used term.)

I bought a Radio Shack VOM (5" high, 4 wide, maybe 1.3 thick) back in the 60's. Beautiful -- works like a charm. Still the best one I have --

*way* better than these new electronic ones.

The absolute crap RS has been selling for the last, what, 20 years?, what absolute garbage. (At least the stuff with the Radio Shack label.)

NO WONDER they seem to be going under.

Wait -- let me go do a wikipedia on them...

Here's the table of contents for the wikipedia article:

Contents [hide]

1 History 1.1 The first 40 years 1.2 Tandy Corporation 1.3 RadioShack Corporation 1.4 "Fix 1500" initiative 1.5 CEO résumé scandal 1.6 New strategy 1.7 Corporate layoffs 1.8 PointMobl 1.9 Customer relations 2 International operations 2.1 Operations in Canada 2.1.1 Pre-2005 2.1.2 Post-2005 2.2 Operations in Australia 2.3 Operations in France 2.4 Operations in Belgium 3 Other operations 3.1 Corporate citizenship 3.2 RadioShack and other retailer partnerships 3.3 RadioShack cycling team 4 Corporate headquarters 5 References 6 Further reading 7 External links

I was looking for an LBO or something, but didn't see one.

But I did see this:

| Customer relations | | RadioShack and the Better Business Bureau of Fort Worth, Texas | met on April 23, 2009 to discuss the condition of their file and | the number of unanswered and unresolved complaints. At this time | RadioShack had the grade of "F" and was not listed as a BBB | Accredited business. The company is now working on a plan of | action to address the existing and future customer service | issues. Part of this plan is already visible in stores which are | now required to post a sign with the District Manager's name and | the question "How Are We Doing?" The sign also includes a direct | toll-free number to the district office for an area and every | office has received a unique phone number. RadioShackHelp.com has | also been created as another portal for customers to resolve | their issues through the internet. As of May 29, 2009, the BBB | has upgraded RadioShack from an "F" to a "C-" rating.[16]

Good ole WIKIPEDIA! What an amazing site! Math, physics, history, literature, you name it, it's there, and GOOD, too. (maybe not for some "controversial" subjects (Israel v Palestineans?) where it'd be hacked every 10 minutes!)

About RS: Suppose they just went back to QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY, at a decent price. I'd sure like that!

(No more "radio row" (Canal Street, NYC) of the 60's and earlier -- no more Allied Radio -- it's RS or nothing, seems to me.)

David

Reply to
David Combs

Looks like I need some education here:

What's a "furnace" vs a "steam boiler"?

The thing we have is this big boiler, I guess, with a pipe going (out of the top, I think) *up*, to the floors above.

Provides zero heat (via hot water or steam or whatever) to the same floor (basement) it is sited in.

Now, what's a "furnace", and how does it differ?

Finally, what's a "furnace/AC". I suppose that's one of those horrible! "heat only via hot air" things that uses the same air-conduits for hot or cold air.

("horrible", because there's no heat via *radiation* -- just via conduction from nauseatingly-hot air surrounding your (clothed, ie insulated from the hot air) body, WHILE at the same time your body has net OUTWARD radiation to the windows and, in old houses, walls. OK for Florida,

*maybe*, but a real loser for anywhere it gets cold.)

David

Reply to
David Combs

A boiler heats water, a furnace heats air. You have a basic steam boiler with a 24 volt gas valve. The draft inducer you have, was not installed properly, probably because it was done by a plumber. The typical draft inducer setup is that the fan gets a constant feed of 120 volts, and in your situation it gets a 24 volt control circuit that intercepts the power from going to the gas valve until the inducer is running, then it allows the 24 volts to continue to the gas valve. The unit may or may not have a post purge, which would allow the fan to continue to run for a few seconds after the burner stops, to evacuate the flue pipe. All of this can be wired to a generator transfer device. I doubt any local electricians are going to just install an outlet and plug for you

Reply to
RBM

You notice that!! That's the kind in nonsense you get when amateurs play electrician

Reply to
RBM

This person is in Canada, and assumes you have a generator with a twist lok outlet on it, and assumes that this wiring meets boiler code in your particular area, which I can tell you unequivocally, it does not

Reply to
RBM

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.