Rethinking "Made in China"

[Lew Hodgett]

How many did you own?

Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.

Lew

Lew

[dadiOH]

I'm the original owner of my 1973 Fiat 124 Spyder. It was my only car until recently. It has been driven down steam beds in Mexico, over mountains, across deserts, etc. It still runs and looks great. Biggest problem I've had with it is "mechanics" screwing up stuff; surprising since it is so mechanically simple but they manage.

[dgk]

Many years ago I had a Fiat 124 Spyder. I called it the Fiat 124 Lemon. I did buy it used so perhaps it was just maintained terribly, but almost every other week something went wrong. The alternator died, the string operating the clutch broke, the transmission developed problems, and just endless crap.

I guess it just depends on when it got put together.

[norminn]

Who? Educated where?

[Leon]

Considering that they were getting a better offer than staying in Canada, the numbers may not be so suprising. What may be suprising is the number of Canadian sientists that Canada could not hold on to.

[Leon]

I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99 Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty. That was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer. The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with synthetic oil. I saw that coming.

I bought the VW's on their past reputation.

Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.

[Leon]

2, too many.

Same with the Jetta and the Passat, BIL was not happy with his Passat either, trans problems.

[Leon]

Reefer? ;~)

[Jules]

Yes, I'm sure it's not good... but then for 7 months of the year up here whatever losses it has are still going into the house as useful heat anyway (and I don't run aircon in summer, so it's not like I'm using more power to combat the inefficiency then either).

I did try estimating how much power it was using once (based on monthly bills and the other stuff that we have running), and it wasn't that bad at all; in terms of the difference in running costs between it and a new fridge, I figured that a new replacement would have to run for at least ten years before it paid for itself. Having seen the way most things are engineered to a price these days, a decade might be asking a little much :(

cheers

Jules

[salty]

I had a Volkswagen once. Then I got a job.

[Swingman]

The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo and placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.

[RonB]

On the bright side, lawyers fly too.

The old V-tail is a good airplane but you can't overcome perception so the went conventional.

The truth is, if anyone dies in an airplane, the manufacturer WILL BE SUED. Back in the late 80's I was told that the first $80K of any aircraft product price was built-in litigation expense. If you take off with a near empty gas tank, no oil, drunk as a skunk and fly into a box canyon; they still come after the manufacturer. We usually win those, but spent millions keeping up with it. Even military products collected lawyers.

RonB

[Swingman]

Two of the most reliable and economical cars I have ever owned, one late

50's model in Europe, and the other a 1960, both original design, and probably still running today.

No wonder ... it was designed to give the American consumer the price point designed trash he prefers.

[Leon]

Consider this, and my comparison is not an even one but you may want to look at other appliances also.

I have been keeping records on a spread sheet of my electricity usage and cost in the same house for the last 21 years. I replaced the original central AC & heating in 1995, it was 14 years old. I am still using that replacement central AC & heating system 15 years later. From 1988 till 2003 my average monthly usage has been from 1214 Kwh to 1456 Kwh. The graph goes up and down, up and down.

Beginning in 2004 my average usage has almost gone flat. 1347 in 2004,

1348 in 2005, 1335 in 2006, 1334 in 2007, 1184 in 2008. and so far in 2009 with one month to go 1297. The big drop in 2008 was because we lost electricity for 11 days because of Hurricane Ike.

I replaced my electric water heater early in 2004. Looking at the efficiency label on the old water heater and comparing to the new $300 water heater installed by me, I determined that it would pay for itself in less than 2 years. I have saved about 1300 Kwh per year since. Electricity has cost me approximately 13 cents per Kwh on average. I have been saving about $169 per year since 2003 after replacing the water heater. Including the cost of the new water heater I have saved $700 in electricity over the last

6 years.

[Leon]

Snip

Exactly!

[salty]

Ever try to land one in a crosswind?

[J. Clarke]

I used to have an X1/9. Lovely little car, only repair I ever needed to make on it other than routine maintenance was the thermostat. I'd likely still be driving it if some asshole hadn't stolen it. Not at all like my one Toyota, that had a single scheduled maintenance item--at 10,000 miles replace engine.

[J. Clarke]

Navy talk for "refrigerator".

[notbob]

Yes, the Italians make Ferraris and $80K shotguns, etc. They also make Fiats. You want the real survivability lowdown on Fiat. I'm from sunny CA where cars NEVER RUST!. If it's worth a damn, it will last forever. In the early 70s, after I got out of the service, CA roads were lousy with Fiats 850s and 124s. It was a craze and ppl bought them by the ship load. They were as common as VW bugs. Thirty years later, they are rarer than an honest politician. In fact, in the last 5 yrs I spent commuting 70 miles a day on SFBA freeways, I was stunned to see a single running 850 Spyder, it having been so long since seeing one, I'd actually forgotten they'd ever existed. Pre-70 Borgwards are more common. If Fiat reliability is any indication of European quality engineering, Chrysler is screwed!

nb

[notbob]

Well, duh! That was pretty much my point.

nb