Re: Vaccine scam

The market goes up and down like the mattress in a honeymoon suite.

> >> > >>> Moderna says vaccine will not prevent you from being infected nor will

> >>> it keep you from being contagious. It only suppresses the symptoms. > >>
> >>
> >> I predicted the other day that you'd probably be joining the anti-vaxxers, you were warming
> >> up, starting and here you are, right on schedule. Moderna did not say what you claim above.
> >> What Zaks said was:
> >>
> >> ?I think we need to be careful, as we get vaccinated, not to over-interpret the results,? Dr Zaks said. ?When we start the deployment of this vaccine, we will not have sufficient concrete data to prove that this vaccine reduces transmission.
> >>
> >> ?Do I believe that it reduces transmission? Absolutely yes, and I say this because of the science,? he added. ?But absent proof, I think it?s important that we don?t change behaviors solely on the basis of vaccination.?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Moderna's Chief Medical officer, Tal Zaks says ?I think we need to be
> >>> careful, as we get vaccinated, not to over-interpret the results. Our
> >>> results show that this vaccine can prevent you from being sick and
> >>> can prevent you from being severely sick. They do not show that they
> >>> prevent you from potentially carrying this virus transiently and
> >>> infecting others.?
> >>
> >> Not having PROOF YET that it stops the spread is very different than the vaccine not
> >> stopping the spread.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> It sounds like the perfect money maker. You need it to survive
> >>> yourself but it doesn't prevent you spreading the disease or even
> >>> prevent you from getting the disease. It just keeps you from having
> >>> symptoms. You are an asymptomatic infector. The perfect vector.
> >>> They won't even say how long the protection lasts. You are just
> >>> hooked. Isn't this how they sell opioids?
> >>>
> >>> This looks like it may be mostly on the taxpayer dime too. > >>>
> >>> I am surprised the "anti-corporate raider" progressives are so
> >>> sanguine with this scam.
> >>
> >> I'm not surprised that you've started the anti-vaxxing FUD. That's the only scam I see.
> >>
> >>
> >+1 These people make me cringe with disbelief at the way they think.
> I have never been against vaccines, as long as we are sure they work.
> The chief science officer of Moderna is not sure his works.
> It's OK, You folks will be testing it in your general population. We
> will get that trial ... in about a year.

Understanding anything less than black and white situations just isn't your forte. Zaks did not say what you claim he said. He said the vaccine will save lives, that it's proven 95% effective to keep people from getting sick. He only warned that they do not have data yet that proves that you still can't have an asymptomatic case and be able to transmit it, but that he believes based on the science that he has seen that it will prevent transmission. In other words, he was trying to be as honest and open with what they know for sure and what they still don't know so that people can act accordingly. This is like me telling Joe that I haven't verified if his roof is leaking or not and you claiming I said his roof is leaking. 1 + 1 = 7 again. You're about ready for Qanon, where they believe with great certainty what they want to believe and refuse to deal with the many complexities of our world. Anything that's at all uncertain or complex, time for a conspiracy theory to simplify it all.

Timing is everything. If he pulls out ahead of the crash he will have done well. Will there be a crash? Would not surprise me. I'm certainly not an expert but I don't see how the present market is justified given the economy and unemployment.

No. to both of you. The Department of Health and Human Serices made an agreement to provide US Government money supplied by US taxpayers to make and deliver vaccine on the hopes that it would be a good vaccine.

Trump invested none of his money and did not come up with the idea of using government money.

Trump's contribution was that he did not throw a monkey wrench into the plan.

Maybe you're thinking of this, involving not trump but Moncef Slaoui, which article I have not read fully.

It's easy to explain. Interest rates are near zero, Fed has flooded the markets with trillions in newly created money and investors are looking past the next 6 months.

I don't like the market either but stick with the old 100 minus age as percentage to have in the market. I'm not an investor either that constantly buys and sell but am in mutual funds to absorb possible big losses from individual stocks.

Unfortunately it is about the only place to invest. Interest rates will not be increased by a bankrupt government that cannot afford to pay high interest on their debt.

It is the first time I have ever seen a vaccine described by the manufacturer that way tho. Have you?

It is clear that without the normal testing, they just don't know and since this is a novel type of vaccine, working in an entirely new way, they have no way of knowing.

You're treating some remarks in an interview to try to keep people from jumping to as of now unproven assumptions as if it was a carefully released position from the company on the vaccine. Drug manufacturers are always putting out major cautionary disclaimers. You must see them on TV regularly. Yes, this drug is wonderful for alleviating your skin problems, but possible side effects include allergic reaction, liver damage, your penis falling off or death.

Again, you keep saying that normal testing was not done, buy I have yet to see that and the position of the medical authorities that I have seen is that full testing was done. Each of these vaccines have been followed now in tens of thousands of people for months. The only thing I've seen said is that normally they would monitor it for two more months to see if there are any side effects that would show up in that period, but having them show up in that period would be very rare. And anything that is very rare isn't likely to show up in 30K people that are monitored for another two months.

So, again, are you saying we should wait? 290K dead, 200K cases a day, 2800 a day dying and it's escalating exponentially. What is your alternate plan?

they just don't know and

It's true that it's a new type. It's also true that we did have a knowledge base with SARS and other coronavirus, which is how the first vaccine was made just two weeks after China put out the DNA sequence. With every other vaccine I know of it took years to get to that point, that is a huge part of the time compression. So, what's your alternate plan?

The thing that is novel is this is not a traditional vaccine. It is RNA based, not a small dose of the target virus.