Re: O.T. --- Today's Gas Fill Up --- O.T.

Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it all, true?

You mean the duty cycle of the small traction motor when it starts the engine? The duty cycle of a few seconds starting verses the rest of the time when it runs the car? And the trivial load of starting the engine versus the load of moving the car?

And of course a Prius does not have "higher duty cycle starter motors".

As it reads - AI never says MG1 is a "starter motor".

As it reads - AI says the Prius is started by MG1. MG1 comes from Toyota and stands for motor-generator. The "starter motor" is a generator?

The large traction motor, MG2, is connected by fixed gears to the wheels (drive shaft), and that is connected to a planetary gear set ring gear. The engine is connected to the planet carrier. The small traction motor, MG1, is connected to the planetary gear set sun gear.

When you start from engine-off the large traction motor moves the car and turns the ring gear, the engine/planet carrier is stopped, The sun gear/small traction motor spins but does nothing. At about 20 mph the small traction motor is powered and turns the engine through the planetary gear set starting the engine (the ring gear continues to turn).

When you are going at higher speeds the small traction motor is powered to stay motionless and the engine turns the wheels through the planetary gear set. At maximum engine speed the car can move at something like 58 mph (I don't remember the exact speed). To go faster the large traction motor acts as a generator and powers the small traction motor which, through the planetary gear set, increases the car speed. (The small traction motor actually starts far earlier.) The small traction motor is a traction motor.

If you are sitting in a parking lot the engine will stop. To get air conditioning the compressor is connected to the high voltage battery (AC, 3-phase, probably variable frequency). That will run the high voltage battery down and the engine will eventually start. The wheels/ring gear are stopped. The engine turns the sun gear/small traction motor as a generator to charge the battery.

Both traction motors move the car. They also both act as generators. The small traction motor occasionally spends a couple seconds starting the engine. The Prius does not have "far higher duty cycle starter motors."

Maybe if you understood how the Prius operates....

And earlier you said the Prius "requires far higher duty cycle starter motors" which certainly reads as separate starter motors.

The large traction motor and high voltage battery move the car without the engine (and if out of gas you can go at least 3 blocks). Ergo the Prius is an EV.

Traction motors regenerate to provide braking. Ergo they are brakes.

The 'transmission' has a "B" function that runs the engine for a long descent - only to provide engine-compression braking. Ergo the engine is a brake.

In cold weather if you are stopped the engine may run just to heat the passenger space. Ergo he engine is a heater.

But many/most other hybrids /do have/ starter motor fatigue to contend with.

It's a thing you and your Prius won't have to deal with, so quit pretending your vehicle's architecture reflects that of all others, capisce?

Hybrid vehicles are uniquely challenging due to the frequent engine start/stops, as well as lower overall engine temperatures, which can lead to water and fuel dilution.

Hybrid vehicles deliver a brilliant mix of electric efficiency and gas-powered range. But beneath that seamless driving experience is a gas engine working in ways it was never designed for... constant stops and starts. Those frequent restarts bring unique demands that can lead to premature hybrid engine wear and sludge buildup, often leaving owners confused when issues appear.

In a traditional internal combustion engine (ICE), the process is simple. The engine starts when you turn the key and runs until you shut it off. That means predictable lubrication, steady heat, and consistent combustion.

Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure, reliable fuel delivery, and consistent spark—often under cooler-than-optimal conditions.

Why Limited Run Time Matters

The bigger concern isn’t just the restart, it’s the lack of sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.

In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture stay in the oil longer, leading to:

Oil degradation;

Sludge formation;

Acidic buildup;

Corrosion;

Shortened engine life.

Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20, and the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if maintenance is skipped.

Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress

Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart events.

Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and lead to costly repairs.

Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear

Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:

Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles driven mainly on short trips.

Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture contamination.

Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge problems.

Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil caps—a classic sign of water in the oil.

Educate customers: just because the engine doesn’t always run doesn’t mean the oil isn’t aging.

The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear

Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As more hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops, recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.

So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider the engine’s lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that it’s counting on you to keep it alive.

Do hybrid cars have a starter motor?

Mild hybrids commonly have an engine starter motor that can also function as an electricity generator (known as a starter-generator), so after starting the engine, the same unit can also send energy back into the car's battery, which is usually a 48-volt unit rather than 12 volts.Jan 6, 2025

Hybrids Using Starter Motors/Belt-Integrated Starters (BISG) Jeep: Wrangler (2019-2020), Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer with eTorque systems. Ram: 1500 with eTorque. Audi: A8, A7, and Q5 45 TFSI (12V/48V MHEV). Fiat: 500 Hybrid, Panda Hybrid (using BSG). General Motors (BAS System): Saturn Aura Green Line, Saturn Vue Green Line, Chevrolet Malibu (2008-2014), Buick LaCrosse/Regal (2012-2014), Chevrolet Impala (2014), and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra (2016, California only). Wikipedia Wikipedia These vehicles often use a 36-volt or 48-volt motor-generator unit connected by a belt to the engine to act as a starter, providing rapid starting for stop-start technology.

Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while playing Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system allowed me to hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a short drive but what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are of the past.

No reliable source.

But great advance - a Prius does not have a starter.

No pretending on my part. Almost all my comments have been about Prius.

Maybe you could stop pretending you know what you are talking about. Capisce?

"This video isn't available anymore."

Mist of what follows comes from this video. The video is professionally made. Who funded it? Why?

The video specifically says it applies to Prius and Ford Escape.

It has little to do with a Prius.

A Prius does not have a starter.

A Prius can run off the high voltage battery & MG2. But the battery is not big enough to do it long (3 blocks?). I don't remember the car ever being run by just the battery except briefly when transitioning from engine-off. The video does not describe how a Prius operates.

Consumer Reports in its car issue (which I got 4 days ago) gets maintenance information from readers. For a wide variety of car models it publishes that information in 15 maintenance categories for the last

Wouldn't happen if the horror scenarios below applied.

====================================

Are they hybrids?

Does an electric motor provide some of the propulsion?

Doesn't sound like what I would call a hybrid.

"a type of hybrid vehicle that couples a conventional internal combustion engine (ICE) with one or more electric engines into a combined propulsion system"

ut many/most other hybrids /do have/ starter motor fatigue to

You won't trust GooGoo's AI?

"High-Duty Cycle Fatigue: The engine in a hybrid stops and starts dozens of times per commute. This subjects the starter system and engine components to significantly more start-stop cycles than a traditional vehicle, potentially causing earlier wear on bearings and starter motor insulation. Electrical Strain: The starter system in hybrids may suffer from electrical "fatigue" due to inrush current surges, which can be 5–10 times the rated current, accelerating the breakdown of electrical insulation and motor efficiency.

Yes, that's been fully sussed already.

Yet the discussion is NOT about merely one model, even yours.

After you quit trying to make this a brand-specific soliloquy, sure...

Yes it is:

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Babcox Media brands host a wide variety of video series on its websites and YouTube channels. These series offer repair and diagnostic tips, technical solutions, new product information or business intelligence. Some of our most popular video series include Road to AAPEX, Engine of the Week, Tech IQ, and On The Road. All the links are in our saved Playlists.

Where?

It showed one, that's about all. It is generic hybrid analysis.

That's nice, are you going to keep repeating that ad nauseum?

Yes, so?

CR has become rather lax in their standards since they changed their weighting and reporting iconography.

Today's CR bears little in common with preceding decades testing, to their detriment.

Then again at least they're not JD (useless) Power...

Of course it could and has.

Apparently.

It is a hybrid, so...

Not concerned with what you would call anything frankly.

What is a hybrid car? A hybrid car uses a combination of a petrol or diesel engine with an electric motor. Therefore, it is more environmentally friendly than petrol or diesel cars by using less fuel and releasing much fewer CO2 emissions.

However, its fuel engine is a great backup if you are new to electric cars as you don’t have to worry about range anxiety. This is especially true for self-charging hybrids, where the electric battery is charged from the on-board internal combustion engine. Therefore, a hybrid car will function very similarly to a conventional car, making the transition to a battery car a lot easier.

Thanks to its green credentials, hybrid car owners can enjoy a lot of the benefits of an electric car, from lower first year tax to free congestion charge. It is worth checking how a hybrid car could save you money in the long run when it comes to choosing the MG car that's right for you.

What is a plug-in hybrid? A plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHEV), is a hybrid car whose battery is charged via an external power source. As a result, the battery within a plug-in hybrid car tends to be bigger than in a hybrid car so that it can hold more electric charge. This allows plug-in hybrids to run mainly on electric power, only using fuel on longer journeys where charge may run out. But this doesn't mean you will be stranded on a roadside somewhere without power as the fuel engine will automatically take over when charge is low.

The amount of places you can charge electric vehicles is rapidly expanding. You may have seen charging points pop up in car parks and service stations and you can also install a charging point at home to power up your vehicle before your journey, just like you would fill up your fuel tank.

What is a mild hybrid? A mild hybrid is where a small electric generator is installed in place of a traditional starter motor and alternator. This increases fuel efficiency and reduces CO2 emissions by allowing fuel-intensive activities, like rapid acceleration or restarting after a stop, to be supported by power from the generator. Alongside this, mild hybrids also harvest energy during braking, which is then returned to the battery to provide additional electric assistance.

And his somewhat jazzier side too:

Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.

A riot of polka dots, like Buddy Guy tripping out on Zappa!

How about some electro-swing:

Jazzy/funky/fusion:

Satriani meets Boston?

Parliament flavored funk!

Dancing robots can be fun but I suppose that one day, we'll see robots with swords running towards us. This is why my plan is to never leave the house in the future.

All those guys look like old farts - even Mr. Bonamassa, but they sure do hit heavy.

There is a certain malevolent irony in designing a platform based upon a failed design.

This is why AI is little more than a re-coded parrot.

Ooh AI - how impressive. GIGO The usual hybrid horror stories. See the comments with both youtube videos.

Nope. It happened in the previous post. But I thought you didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Starting in your leading post: "In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape...."

Starting in your leading post: "In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape...."

I understand a Prius. What you copied is simply wrong for a Prius. Or some other hybrids with excellent maintenance ratings. Given its errors I seen nothing convincing that the horror stories are real. Your horror stories read like a manufacturer takes a generic engine and adds the hybrid stuff.

In particular see the video just below.

My error - I had a typo.

Great link. The video is the usual hybrid horror stories from Mobill oil. But you may not have noticed the 6000 comments, most all of which said the video is BS, often citing the hundreds of thousands of miles on their Prius. And a few comments like "this video has provided insights into how to sell oil."

Are you serious? Where in the video? Transcription of which you copied? In the 4th paragraph? I wouldn't want to strain your mental facilities so I will repeat it: "Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid...."

"In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid...."

You poor abused person. I was talking about what is in the video. You repeated my comment. Not talking about what you have said.

With minimal reading ability you could continue reading and find out.

So the hybrid horror stories apply to a model and the model still has the highest maintenance ratings and is a recommended buy?

Nowhere in your following piece is there anything about a motor providing propulsion.

So you could read what immediately follows.

The cars below have starter motors - your fetish. Nowhere does it say there is a motor that provides propulsion. Whether they are hybrids is not shown. Not that it makes any difference to the thread.

Forgets to say the electric motor can add to the engine to power the car. And regenerative braking, a major feature that is included in "mild hybrid". "Therefore" does not follow from what is before it.

The piece is not good but is an OK brief description for the general public.

It isn't a "small electric generator" or "generator". It is a motor generator. Hard to start a car with a generator.

It's a tool.

The "usual" aspect confirms it is a known and vetter failing.

You did it from the get go, try and activate that memory muscle.

The Pruis? True.

I would continue to put the visually appealing and internally restyled Prius at the top of the hybrid list on a number of factors.

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

No, it may reference older models but it is accurate to those iterations:

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

Indeed that has occurred.

AI Overview What is the 2022 Ram 1500 eTorque? | Jack Powell Chrysler ... The Ram 1500 eTorque system is a mild-hybrid technology introduced in

Again, the Prius is NOT the lone hybrid out there.

You need to jump off your one tall soapbox and see the rest of the market for what it is.

And then put your busy brain to work explaining to me why diesel hybrids never became a standard.

The engine produces wads of torque down low and could easily (In Volt configuratiuon) be an awesome generator engine style hybrid.

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

You besotted repeat bot.

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

I no longer trust CR's rating system, nor the size of the data set thay can still muster in an age where magazines are on the way out.

Models come and go, don't they, troll?

Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.

AI Overview Toyota Prius Generations: Key Updates Across All Model Years Full hybrid (HEV) Toyota Prius models, which do not require plugging in and use gas/electric power automatically, include all standard Liftback generations (1997–present), the subcompact Prius c (2012–2021), and the compact Prius v wagon (2012–2017). These models use Toyota Hybrid System II

An example:

AI Overview What is the 2022 Ram 1500 eTorque? | Jack Powell Chrysler ... The Ram 1500 eTorque system is a mild-hybrid technology introduced in

AI Overview What is the 2022 Ram 1500 eTorque? | Jack Powell Chrysler ... The Ram 1500 eTorque system is a mild-hybrid technology introduced in

AI Overview What is the 2022 Ram 1500 eTorque? | Jack Powell Chrysler ... The Ram 1500 eTorque system is a mild-hybrid technology introduced in

And this is what you find here - "the general public."

Semantic noodling like this is petty and distorts the value of the research provided, your obvious goal.

AI Overview What is the 2022 Ram 1500 eTorque? | Jack Powell Chrysler ... The Ram 1500 eTorque system is a mild-hybrid technology introduced in

Key hybrid trucks available for 2025-2026 include the fuel-efficient Ford Maverick, versatile Ford F-150 PowerBoost, and powerful Toyota Tundra i-FORCE MAX and Tacoma i-FORCE MAX. The Ram 1500 offers a 48-volt eTorque mild-hybrid system, with the upcoming 2025 Ram 1500 REV providing a long-range plug-in hybrid option. Top Hybrid Truck Models (2025-2026) Ford Maverick Hybrid: A compact truck known for high fuel efficiency (38 MPG combined). Ford F-150 PowerBoost Hybrid: A full-size truck featuring a 3.5L twin-turbo V6 and electric motor. Toyota Tundra i-FORCE MAX: A full-size truck with 437 horsepower and 583 lb-ft of torque. Toyota Tacoma i-FORCE MAX: A midsize truck, with models like the TRD Pro, utilizing a hybrid powertrain. Ram 1500 eTorque: A 48-volt mild-hybrid system available on V6 and V8 engines. Ram 1500 REV: An upcoming plug-in hybrid ("range-extending") truck promising long range. Key Takeaways Best MPG: The Ford Maverick Hybrid is the most efficient, according to iSeeCars.com. Towing & Power: The Toyota Tundra Hybrid offers up to 12,000 lbs of towing capacity, says this YouTube video. Future Trends: More models are entering the market, including anticipated plug-in hybrid versions from Ram and potential future Super Duty hybrids, notes TopElectricSUV.

The Ford Maverick has been a particular success story!

AI Overview The 2025/2026 Ford Maverick Hybrid is a highly efficient, compact unibody pickup truck featuring a 2.5L Atkinson-cycle 4-cylinder engine and electric motor, producing a total of 191 horsepower. It delivers up to 42 mpg in the city (38-40 combined) and for 2025, offers optional all-wheel drive alongside standard front-wheel drive.

What Is Hybrid Technology? In simple terms, Ford’s hybrid technology combines two power sources: a traditional gas engine and an electric motor powered by a battery. These systems work together and sometimes separately to make your drive smoother, quieter, and way more fuel-efficient. When you’re driving slowly or coasting, the electric motor can handle things on its own. The gas engine kicks in when you hit the gas or need more power. A hybrid can be a full hybrid, which charges itself as it drives, or a plug-in hybrid, which can be charged at home or on the go for short electric-only trips.

How Do Ford Hybrids Work? The Ford hybrid powertrain is designed to provide a seamless driving experience at the push of the accelerator. When you start from a complete stop, the electric motor utilizes stored battery energy for a smooth and quiet launch, ensuring no harmful emissions. As you accelerate, either the Atkinson-cycle or EcoBoost® gasoline engine kicks in, working together with the electric motor through an advanced continuously variable transmission or a specialized 10-speed hybrid system. This Ford hybrid technology maximizes both power and efficiency, with peak battery output boosting overall performance.

When it’s time to slow down, simply press the brake pedal, and the electric motor transforms kinetic energy back into electricity, replenishing the battery. This results in gentle, controlled deceleration, unlike the abrupt shifts found in some other vehicles.

Additionally, the engine automatically turns off when you come to a stop at traffic lights, helping you save fuel while the battery maintains power for your infotainment, climate system, and phone charging. Ford’s hybrid technology optimizes energy use by relying on electric power at lower speeds and employing regenerative braking to recover energy. If you need to merge on the highway or tackle a steep incline, the Power-On-Demand feature seamlessly combines the full power of the engine with immediate electric torque, offering an exhilarating boost that surprises you despite its eco-friendly credentials.

It was done close to a hundred years ago. The Owen Magnetic and Galt Electreic were "serial Hybruds back in the twenties. The BIG problem is the "efficiency stack" If you can get your tiny engine up to an incredible 45% (a pipe dream) and your generator up to 80% and the motor up to 85% you havw 30% efficiency - about the same as a good regular ICE power plant. Then add the inefficiency of the charge/discharge cycle of the intermediate battery if you want to get away with an engine capable if only the "average power requirement" and it drops wven further.

When the battery on my '49 VW died I put a crank on it

Perhaps eventually - but I doubt it will happen in my lefetime. Cold Fusion would make it ALL obdilete - but ew haven't got THERE yet either.