Re: O.T. --- Today's Gas Fill Up --- O.T.

Any regular duty cycle that shuts the ICE on and off(esp. when stopped) is excess starter wear and tear.

But wait, there's more:

Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure, reliable fuel delivery, and consistent spark—often under cooler-than-optimal conditions.

Why Limited Run Time Matters

The bigger concern isn’t just the restart, it’s the lack of sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.

In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture stay in the oil longer, leading to:

Oil degradation;

Sludge formation;

Acidic buildup;

Corrosion;

Shortened engine life.

Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20, and the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if maintenance is skipped.

Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress

Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart events.

Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and lead to costly repairs.

Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear

Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:

Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles driven mainly on short trips.

Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture contamination.

Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge problems.

Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil caps—a classic sign of water in the oil.

Educate customers: just because the engine doesn’t always run doesn’t mean the oil isn’t aging.

The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear

Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As more hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops, recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.

So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider the engine’s lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that it’s counting on you to keep it alive.

There is always used, let someone else eat the depreciation and get a dealer loaner or demo unit.

Regardless:

Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure, reliable fuel delivery, and consistent spark—often under cooler-than-optimal conditions.

Why Limited Run Time Matters

The bigger concern isn’t just the restart, it’s the lack of sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.

In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture stay in the oil longer, leading to:

Oil degradation;

Sludge formation;

Acidic buildup;

Corrosion;

Shortened engine life.

Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20, and the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if maintenance is skipped.

Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress

Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart events.

Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and lead to costly repairs.

Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear

Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:

Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles driven mainly on short trips.

Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture contamination.

Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge problems.

Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil caps—a classic sign of water in the oil.

Educate customers: just because the engine doesn’t always run doesn’t mean the oil isn’t aging.

The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear

Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As more hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops, recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.

So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider the engine’s lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that it’s counting on you to keep it alive.

That 35 (or less) EV range is a damned joke!

Cute, but no mileage listed: "Partial history " only...

Fiats tend to be, ftmp:

But many use the hybrid power plant as the starter (MG1?) There is no "starter motor" and it's associated starter drive and ring gear

Except on MOST PHEV systems thry are Parallel Hybrids, not series, so the engine actually physically drives the car when in ICE mode - they are NOT constant speed variable load systems like a backup Generator except on the few like the Chevy Volt and the upcoming EREV Ford (Extended Range EV)

My neighbour has a Prius Prime and in the summer he goes almost all summer on a tank of gas. If he goes to visit his son (in Hamilton I believe) or his daughter down Woodstock way? He occaisionally ends up using a bit of gas - but in the winter it IS a different story if he wants to be warm and have a defroster - - - He found out the hard way that colission damage adds up a lot faster though!!!!!!

That's plug-in hybrid - .. hybrid offers ~ zero electric only range .. John T.

I have a Prius. You are out of touch with reality. The car starts from an engine-off stop with a traction motor till about 20 mph. The engine then starts on another traction motor. The car is then seldom powered by just battery. The electric adds to the gas engine. The battery is to capture the kinetic energy of a stop (regeneration), keep the engine operating at an efficient point (controlling driving and added power for charging) and can add drive power.

Continued nonsense.

Prius has a high Consumer Reports rating. Also high consumer satisfaction. Part of the rating is based on actual user experience (like low maintenance). Your dreams are just YOUR nightmares.

The temperature concern on a Prius is efficiency. Cold engines run on approximations in firmware (open-loop). Warm engines use sensors like the oxygen sensors (closed-loop) which is significantly more efficient. The Prius, when it is turned off, pumps hot coolant into a vacuum insulated bottle. When it is turned on the coolant is pumped back into the engine to get to closed-loop.

A Prius does not have a 12V starter. It starts on one of the 2 traction motors and high voltage battery. That is one of the same motors that moves the car. You think that motor has a starter wear problem? Do any hybrids have a 12V starter? The traction motors, by the way, are 3-phase AC.

The Prius also does not have an alternator. The 12V battery is charged by a DC-to-DC converter from the high voltage battery.

My Prius has over 150.000 miles with just routine maintenance. Including, for instance, no brake work because of regeneration.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Their system is aces, but it still requires far higher duty cycle starter motors.

Go argue with AI then.

And btw, there are more hybrids with starter motors than without...

AI Overview Starter Motors for Toyota Prius V The Toyota Prius does not have a traditional starter motor or alternator; it uses a high-voltage motor-generator (MG1) inside the transaxle to spin the engine, powered by the hybrid battery. A 12V battery is still used to energize the system, and a "ready" light or click indicates it is active.

Iow, a starter motor by any other name is still a starter motor.

But its refreshing to see you upon your hind legs for Toyota.

Meanwhile:

AI Overview Mild hybrid (MHEV) vehicles are the primary hybrids that use a starter motor, usually in the form of a 48-volt Integrated Starter Generator (ISG) or Belt-driven Starter Generator (BSG). These systems use the electric motor to spin the engine for quick, smooth stop-start functionality and to assist with acceleration. Common Mild Hybrids with Starter-Generators: Audi: A4, A6, Q5, Q7, Q8 (often labeled TFSI or TDI) BMW: 3 Series, 5 Series (48V mild-hybrid models) Mercedes-Benz: C-Class, E-Class, S-Class (EQ Boost models) Kia/Hyundai: Sportage, Stonic, Tucson, Kona (often 48V systems) Suzuki: Swift, Ignis Mazda: Mazda3, CX-5 (M Hybrid models) Volkswagen: Golf (eTSI models) Key Details: Function: Unlike traditional starters, these ISGs also act as alternators to charge the battery through regenerative braking. Operation: The motor provides a "boost" to the internal combustion engine but typically cannot propel the vehicle on its own. Distinction: Full hybrids (like Toyota Prius) generally do not use a separate starter motor; they use their high-voltage electric motor/generator (MG1) to start the engine.

It is NOT an EV. the 35 mile EV capability is a bonus - The Hybrid is designed for parallel operation, where the ICE is still the promary prime mover, and the electric motor augments the small ICE when more power is required, provides seamless start stop functionality for emission reduction, and recovers power otherwise wasted when decellerating or braking for use in power augmentation. Pjug in Hybrids are a horse of a totally different colour and it is possible to drive for 7 or 8 months here in Ontario without ever running the ICE if you don't take any long drives and plug in every night

I will take the word of an expert over AI BS any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Except there IN NO STARTER MOTOR on a prius. In effect the car starts on the electric traction motor and the ICE engine is "Bump started" when it is required - just like rolling a car down a hill and "popping theclutch"

and it is entertaining to see you prove your ignorance on the subject.

"Mild Hybrid" is marketing speek for "start stop technology" with regenerative braking and an "ISG" is a direct drive starter generator integrated with the transmission or engine flywheel. It has ONE moving part and is not subject to any wear from starting the engine

Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors than to power the wheels directly. My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.

Yet Chey's Volt somehow didn't survive, neither did BMW's funky little i3, nor the aptly named Fisker Karma.

But in terms of energy used it made some sense.

Mini generators great, 153 miles range (BMW), not so much.

Tis indeed.

Whatever that means

A Prius does not have a starter motor. The engine is started by one of the traction motors. That motor moves the car but also starts the engine. "You think that motor has a starter wear problem?"

Two traction motors, the engine, and the wheels are all combined in a planetary drive. No gear shifting or variable pitch pulleys. Both traction motors can move the car (or act as generators).

Yea - AI is known to be so accurate. And you are such a fine interpreter.

I have no idea. But you are not a reliable source (and provide no source).

One of the two traction motors that drive the car is also used to start the car. It is not a starter motor. Your AI does not disagree with that. You are remarkable dense.

I thought hybrid engines would self-destruct in a year. Retirednoguilt's 2010 Prius hasn't self-destructed yet either.

Doesn't seem particularly useful and does not disagree with what I have said. I defer to Clare.

Perplexed over a colloquialism, do tell...

Duty cycle must be accordingly high regardless.

Nothing to interpret, it is as it reads.

I do.

I did.

I Overview Hybrid cars that use starter motors are primarily mild hybrids, particularly those equipped with Belt-driven Alternator Starter (BAS) or similar eTorque systems that use a 12V or 48V motor to start the engine and assist with acceleration. These systems often utilize a traditional 12V starter for cold starts while using the motor-generator for automatic stop-start functionality. Key Hybrid Models with Starter Motors/eTorque Ram: 1500 (eTorque) Jeep: Wrangler (eTorque), Wagoneer (eTorque), Grand Cherokee (eTorque) Buick: LaCrosse (eAssist), Regal (eAssist) Chevrolet: Malibu Hybrid, Malibu (eAssist), Impala (eAssist), Silverado (eAssist) Audi: A7, A8, Q5 45 TFSI (MHEV) Fiat: 500 Hybrid, Panda Hybrid (with BSG) Saturn: Aura Green Line, Vue Green Line Toyota: Crown Mild Hybrid (earlier models)

It is being used to start it, ergo...

Prii have been around since their first butt ugly incarnation, largely running perhaps longer than one might want to own one.

Ugly but basic and effective:

Mild Hybrids with Starter Generator (48V or 12V) These vehicles use a motor mounted to the engine via a belt to start it, often allowing for smoother stop-start functionality. Jeep Wrangler (eTorque) Ram 1500 (eTorque) Jeep Wagoneer/Grand Cherokee (eTorque) Audi Q5 45 TFSI (12V MHEV) Mercedes-Benz Models with EQ Boost (e.g., GLE 450, C-Class) Kia Sportage Hybrid (Uses a belt-driven hybrid starter generator) Older or Specific Hybrid Systems Saturn Aura Green Line & Vue Green Line (2007–2009) Chevrolet Malibu/Impala Hybrid (with eAssist) Buick LaCrosse/Regal (with eAssist) Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra (with eAssist) Note on Honda Hybrids Older Honda Hybrids (IMA system): These used the electric motor/flywheel to start the engine. Newer Honda Hybrids (e.g., 2025 Civic Hybrid): While these primarily operate as series hybrids, they use one of the electric motors specifically to start the engine. Key Distinction: Starter vs. Motor-Generator Traditional/Belt Starter: Found on the "Mild Hybrid" models listed above. These are often 48-volt systems that can also assist with power. No Traditional Starter: Toyota Prius, Camry Hybrid, RAV4 Hybrid, and Ford hybrids typically use their high-voltage traction motor to turn over the engine, not a separate 12V starter motor.

EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.

Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient. The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to be in the engine compartment. So your AC is trying to move heat from the cabin into the already-hot engine compartment on a hot day, which is a whole 'nother layer of inefficiency.

Not so much direct cabin heat as refrigerant carrying said to a condenser, located before the radiator so it gets first crack at cooling air.

The firewall and dash insulate the evaporator from engine compartment heat soak.

The EV's ac system is more efficient because it works like a home unit and is not tied to engine rpm so it can always run at peak efficiency.

But in many it does double duty providing battery cooling, so there are trade-offs.

My guess is that the days of hybrid cars are numbered. Cars with batteries of over 150 kWh will probably kill off gasoline engines. Solid state batteries with energy densities of over 400 Wh/kg will probably kill off liquid electrolyte batteries. Batteries with high energy densities will probably kill off gasoline generators. There'll be a whole lot of killin' going on.

Heater? What's a "heater."

Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.