Range clock - Disconnect it!

snipped-for-privacy@vt.edu wrote: ...

The problem w/ the coffee maker we currently have is it thinks it has to get a second fill ready to brew any second so preheats the other water w/ no way to disable this "feature". Not only is it a power waster, the water level is always low from boil-off so have to add extra to compensate.

The microwave is combined in the range so nothing additional there and it's mechanical display w/ no processor boards, there's a clock radio w/ its display, but that's it for electronic gadgets in kitchen.

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Reply to
dpb
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Yes, did you miss the collectively?

How could you possibly think otherwise?

Isn't this whole thread about the amount of energy wasted while in standby?

When dealing

Actually, and I had misnamed before, Energy should be what we are talking about as energy has a time component. The power company bills for the amount of energy you use. The amount of power you use at any instant is usually irrelevant (unless you have peak billing).

Now, I would say that most stoves use more energy on than off(there's wide range here, I'm sure my old Jennaire uses no power when off).

I don't know how much power a typical stove with electronic controls uses but I found this.

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The clock on the microwave uses more energy than the oven

The first time I heard that statement I thought,"Great, another electrical myth, like the myth that you should leave lights on because they take a lot of electricity to start up.". After all, I knew that the oven uses about 1000 watts while the clock uses five.

But then I thought, wait a minute, the clock is running 24/7, while the oven is running just a few minutes a day. Then I did the math:

How much energy the clock uses in a day: 5 (watts) x 24 (hours) =

120 (watt-hours)

How long it takes the microwave to the same amount of energy: 120 watt-hours / 1000 watts = 0.12 hours, or 7.2 minutes

This means that if you use a typical microwave oven for less than 7.2 minutes/day, the clock uses more electricity than the oven. Wow.

That sounds perhaps even low to me and it is possible it uses twice the power while off. I suppose I could dig out my amprobe and check my late model name brand microwave since I don't have a kill a watt meter.

They are but one "electronic" device in a home though.

Who said otherwise? If you read this thread, I've never advocated removing a clock from a stove, quite the opposite.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Well, sure, like my toaster. It doesn't use any current when it's not being used.

I think he is seriously over estimating the power usage of a clock chip and LCD display. 1 Watt would be more like it.

5 Watts would be about right for an old mechanical stove clock.

Now divide that by 5 to get a more realistic value . . .

I probably use my microwave in the 5 to 10 minutes per day range.

In other words, he didn't want to test to find out his "estimate" was bogus. He probably knew it was high.

Bill Ranck Blacksburg, Va.

Reply to
ranck

Well, it's been going since '84 so far...

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Reply to
dpb

You are, of course, neglecting the power supply losses. Non switching regulators typically throw away half or more of the power. The trend is away from them.

Oh blah blah blah.

For my late model GE smallish microwave, it uses 3 watts on idle. That required winding 30 turns on an amprobe, measuring the current and dividing by 30 and then multiplying by the line voltage. If you had the same MW and used it 5 minutes the phantom energy is equal to the in use energy.

What does yours use?

I have never recommended removing clocks from anything, quite the contrary. But just because they are necessary does not mean they aren't trivial. Considering that a microwave is a high drain device while in operation just shows the depth of the problem for all the low drain devices that probably have higher idle drain. The old cable boxes certainly spring to mind. So does anything run by a wall wart.

I have no problem in believing that at least 5% of the energy used in this country is phantom losses. Probably half of that is recoverable by better design. With the cost of copper what it is, I'd think wall warts have a limited future.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

You're wrong. They will continue to be used because they are the best approach, particularly when they are switch mode.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Trouble is, it's damn near impossible to buy anything today WITHOUT all the bells and whistles that crap out on you soon after purchase, creating an obscenely inflated estimate for repair or replacing.

Just give me the simple stuff, please.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

On 6/2/2008 12:58 PM Rod Speed spake thus:

Yep (meaning "I agree with you"). But I don't understand why you seem so sre that we'll be using this decidedly non-green source when so many other truly green sources have such better chances of not only providing practical power but also doing it economically. (Specifically: solar photovoltaic, wind, geothermal, tide [being proposed for the San Francisco Bay Area], cogeneration, recovered landfill methane, small-head hydro, etc.)

Not only that, but doing it in a truly distributed fashion, allowing better matches between sources and loads.

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

Yeah. We need more laws.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Actually I have been working on saving on my electric bill for many years now. One year I might buy a new Energy Star appliance. The next install more insulation. Year after that put everything on power strips, etc.

So I have not noticed any one big drop in my electric use at any one time. (Except when I replaced an old window air conditioner with a new one.) Basically my electric use has been slowly dropping as I learn about saving electricity on misc.consumers.frugal-living or

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then make a few changes here and there.

Reply to
Bill

Never looked at Blue Star. One reason was price. $2500 versus $4200. Bertazzoni has a more direct distribution system, thus a lower cost. In my case, we have propane. The serviceman for the propane says Wolf can be difficult to get setup right. One place had a Jenn-Air on the floor that listed for $3900. Looked like a $900 range that they tacked on some fancy grates and big price tag.

I had never heard of the brand before, but they have been in business for over 125 years, still family owned. They are family new to the US and I suspect that is another reason for the price as they want to build market share. We though tit was a good value and we really liked the styling.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Regulation is not a bad thing.

It's very hard for a company to do something for the long term good when doing that puts it at a short term competitive disadvantage. That's why regulations that are evenly applied to all competitors work. And why voluntary targets don't.

We've had 7 years of corporate free reign under George W Bush. Few would think the results are impressive. Fewer still would believe that we have made progress toward solving the problems that loom.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Sure it is. At the end of the billing cycles, do you pay more for the on time or the off time?

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Right. I had an old component stereo main amplifier which would lose its settings if I removed the power from it. So in that case I put everything else on a power strip and turned those off, but left the main amplifier plugged in. Then it did not lose its settings. Later I got a new model which remembers its settings and this is now on the power strip. I turn off power to it when not in use.

So if it is something which is a pain to reset after it is unplugged, then leave it plugged in. If your not using the clock and it remembers its other settings when power is removed, then put that on a power strip and remove power when not in use. If you use the clock/timer, leave it plugged in.

Note: Do not unplug a VCR with the tape still inside! Always eject the tape first before removing power. Otherwise the tape can jamb.

Reply to
Bill

If e.g. a PC uses 5 watts "off" and 200 watts "on" it's not rocket science to figure out what fraction of time it must be used for the "on" power to equal or exceed the "off" power. I suspect plenty of PC's don't make the cut (or do, but just barely).

Reply to
CJT

75% is more than 25%.

Reply to
CJT

CJT wrote

That aint the % the original stupid claim was made about.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Edwin Pawlowski wrote

is consumed while the products are turned

Nope, home electronics aint the same thing as appliances.

You pay more for the on time with APPLIANCES.

Reply to
Rod Speed

CJT wrote

make the cut (or do, but just barely).

Pity the original claim was made about APPLIANCES where thats almost never true.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Jeff wrote

concerned about how much electricity

usage. Hmm, I see you've snipped all

return on investment is quick.

problem with the rationale of going to war in

Depends entirely on how its done.

You havent established that it does with that last.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont.

Lie.

Most arent qualfied to have an opinion on that particular question.

problems that loom.

Irrelevant to what is feasible with regulation.

Reply to
Rod Speed

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