Questions about buying a standby electrical generator

[Dean Hoffman]

Some cut.

More cut.

I "gotta" ask. Why not use solar/battery fencers? Maybe there are some available that switch to battery power when the 120 vac shuts off.

[Stormin Mormon]

And that's where the problem is in this thread: You live in a trailer park. Nothing against trailer parks... have good friends in a couple of them and had a brother in one for about a year. But...

How the hell does that or some suburbanite's experience translate into rural living? It ain't about hating the dark, trust me. Your park may be along a back road... but it isn't likely the same.

CY: I can imagine that. Nice thing about usenet, we can compare what works here, or there.

Here, we lose power constantly... sometimes for a few hours and sometimes for many, many days at a time. We fill two freezers with meat every fall when we slaughter. How much food do you store in freezers there and what is it's value? If ours goes... there goes our next year's worth food (BTW, do

*not* believe the line about it staying frozen for 3 or 4 days if you don't open it, especially in the summer).

CY: Rural people hunt for food. So, the freezer is more important. My freezer, I've got some ice cubes, a carton of ice cream, and a couple frozen pizzas. If it thaws, I can stick all the lost food into one or two handle sack bags from the grocery. Me, melt down. No worries.

Thank goodness we finally decided to put ventless gas heaters in the cellar... they can keep the pipes from freezing but I gotta tell ya the upstairs can get danged cold after a few days.

CY: The one ice storm, 2003, I was cold in a few hours. On day four, I said heck with the noise, and wired the generator in. Of course, that's the day the power came back on. I'd like a vented wall heater, but havn't yet put one in.

When there's a bad storm brewing here we run to put 6 or 7 inches of water in the tub... why? Cause we lose our water without our electric... no toilet, no bathing, no watering the animals without moving them to the side with the artesian. Takes a lot of current on that 240v pump to get it cranking.

CY: That sounds very wise. I have some pop bottles of water. The park turns off the water every now and again, to repair pipes.

Ever try to move steer in a storm? Why would you, you might ask. Well... if the electric is out, so are the fences and when cattle are jittery, they can tell it's not on (or they just get brave enough to find out as some of us argue the situation but I say they know when it's not on).

CY: I'm guessing they can sense the power, some how. Generator for fence charger, sounds useful.

What do you think the ramifications are of some idiot with a canvas Jeep blowing around challenging the foul conditions coming down a wet and windy road and plowing into about 1800 pounds of dinner? We're not talking coaxing Bessie, the chocolate milk cow, from Grandma's window, here... If the spiritual leader of the herd is one of these guys that's been around a few months too long and going nutso and you're out there in foul weather with people they're not used to trying to move them away from what they see as safe, you'd better be wearing your brass supporter that day. It used to be that there weren't all these cars on this road and if there were any they were people smart enough to understand it could be a dangerous place to drive when things get like that. Used to be that if cattle got loose, you spent a day or two looking over the nearby farms and woods or waited them out. Can't do that anymore.

CY: I'm glad I don't have cattle, here.

Let's say they are in the ideal spot near the barn and head that way... ever see the lights in a barn dim when those big assed fans kick on? And, these sort of deals always seem to happen when you're dealing with a sick one down in a stall or something.

CY: That would put me in a bad mooooood.

Sides... nobody out here is not holding a regular job these days... when the power goes down 6 or 7 hours before one gets home, it can really start to get interesting.

CY: Come back to find a melted freezer?

The people in the trailer 18 feet away might get angry?!?!?! We have two or three places here that we can actually see and hear and I can guarantee that if the power was down they'd be glad to know that there won't be a parade of beef and pies through their yards because they can hear the generator running. And even if they did care, tough crap to them... shouldn't have moved to the country expecting to make it another piece of suburbia or a trailer park or something.

CY: You tell em, boss!

We have talked a lot about getting the big unit, but not at the $$$ coming in verses the $$$ going out around here. We have three gas wells on the property that were supposed to pay, but, contrary to what they show on TV, gas isn't paying anything now that they've over drilled. Still... as long as they don't shut the wells in due to the glut, we'd have free gas to run the generator with, which, as the OP has suggested, can get costly if running one long term on diesel or gasoline. So, the discussion on this matter goes on at our place.

CY: Gas well sounds useful.

I'm not 80, but my FIL is 83 and I'm coming up on 57, trying like hell to get my health back after getting the damned Lyme disease and my boy checks into a dorm next weekend. It's looking more and more like I keep driving the jalopy and get the generator.

But, all that said... your experience in a trailer park means squat in this context.

CY: You told me, Pa. Glad you did, I learned a lot.

[Stormin Mormon]

I was wondering about some kind of UPS with a lead acid trolling battery, for when the power is out.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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More cut.

I "gotta" ask. Why not use solar/battery fencers? Maybe there are some available that switch to battery power when the 120 vac shuts off.

[rdoc]

I know a lot of guys who hunt for food around here but I don't get why when I know that some of them put or should be putting a steer in the freezer. Venison can't compare to good pasture fed beef. We allow only one guy and his brother to hunt here to help thin them for damage reasons. Most hunters are drunk or hungover and do more damage than the deer by far and we had all of that nonsense that we would tolerate years ago. Besides... if you let only one guy do it, your mechanic is a great pic in these days of cars being complicated to heck and back. It's an investment.

[rdoc]

Other folks around here haven't had very good luck with them as the joules seem to drop quickly with little age and where they run through the woods and brush, where there are light shorts when wet, they seem to loose their punch even quicker. I've lobbied for something of a zone system here that would use multiple fencers and isolate the wooded areas from the open areas along the road and property lines where they are more likely to go on longer trips. These open area 'zones' where patrolling is more regular would likely be able to hold up on the solar thing better, I'd think. But... that's not the way someone did things 40 years ago and he's not changing it now, if you know what I mean.

As I've heard it, when shorted heavy they really don't do diddly. We get deer taking wire out a lot and a good heavy fencer will still put a little pop for a little distance... but not much for very far or if they've really made a mess of things. Obviously, if they break the wire, then nothing works past that point. As a side on that one... we've quit cranking them like piano strings as that only makes a break more probable when full sized buck comes plowing through.

One other thing that I heard one guy complain about was that the solar deals made his radios and TV pop. I've only had that when the fencer was plugged in right here at the house at not at some other location like the barn, even though the hillbilly electrical scheme has them on the same entrance, kinda, sorta. Well, that and, once when I got one of those little red led lights that you clip between the top and bottom wires so that you can see just from the window or walking in the yard that the fence is working, that thing had car radios popping for a quarter mile. I would think that if I had the solar far enough away that would avoid that.

But, yes... we have considered it. Never heard of ones that can be either/or battery or 120, though... that might be something to look up as it would eliminate some of the other issues.

[trader4]

Maybe you better check it out. The UCC says a product has an implied warranty of merchantibility and fitness. Which makes sense, because for interstate commerce we didn't want people selling a hammer that can't be used as a hammer. Or a car that doesn't work and can't be used as a car. UCC says that all products have an implied warranty of merchantibility, UNLESS THE CONTRACT SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES IT. And that is exactly what this shyster contract does, it excludes it. So, the generator does not have to work like a generator should and the seller is off the hook. The buyer is screwed, unless the seller decides they want to do something about it.

Let's assume for the moment that is what the clause means. You'd sign that? It doesn't have to function properly?

BS. That is *not* what a warranty of merchantibility and fitness means. If it did, the warranty of merchantibility and fitness would not be included in the Uniform Commercial Code. A code that has been adopted by all 50 states. It provides that all goods and services have an implied warranty of fitness and merchantibility, unless SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED. And exclude it is exactly what this contract does.

It sure does and it specifically says that you have no warranty period. So, go ahead, sign it if you like, but if the thing doesn't work or blows up a weak later, don't expect any warranty coverage.

Again, that is *not* what is says. To say that the contract would say:

"There is no warranty, express or implied, other than the manufacturer;s one year warranty and XYZ electrics 3 month warranty on installation."

or

"No warranty other than as outlined in section X.Y of this contract, either express or implied, is given.

What it actually says, again, is no warranty of merchantibility or fitness period.

[trader4]

c.rural group is

And you better go read the UCC instead of posting links to it. Because you have this totally WRONG. The UCC says you have an implied warranty of merchantibility UNLESS THE CONTRACT SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES IT. Which makes sense. It' saying if you sell a hammer, it should be usable as a hammer unless SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED in the contract. And exclude merchantibility and fitness is exactly what this shyster contract does in black and white. The contractor is saying this generator installation doesn't have to even function as a generator and you can't hold me responsible.

[Smitty Two]

I realize this is an older thread, but I'm just getting to it. Let's see, 200/24 = 8.33. So you're claiming that a typical homeowner won't be needing a generator for a total of just over a week? I'd say anyone who expects that level of reliability from their power company doesn't need a generator at all.

[Existential Angst]

8.33?? Are sure it's not 8.32 or 8.34? Did you learn about significant figures in community college?

Aside from Shitty's over-decimalization, 200 hours is about alls yer gonna get if you buy an effingGenerac.

And then there is the issue of "typical home owner". And the issue of expectations of future reliability.

But the implied point is actually a good one, skewed a bit by Irene and that crazy Halloween storm in the NE. After that, generators were backordered for up to 5 months, mebbe more. 3 million people lost power in the Halloween fiasco, hundreds of thousands of them for up to a month. holy shit.....

So statistically, most proly don't need one. But, not many in the NE will forget Halloween.

Plus, if all's yer gonna do is get a bitty gasoline generator for lites and a fridge, it's no big deal. But if yer tryna do a whole-house thing "right", without breaking the bank, the setup really is a pita. Noise is a big issue, most of these units are unbelievably noisy, even with quality Honda engines. Incl Generacs. Don't believe that 73 db bullshit.

If a contractor sets this up "right", esp. on nat. gas, it *will* break the bank. Tri-fuel is a neat and not super-expensive option, as it allows a wheeled unit to act as a true standby on nat gas, AND a portable work unit on gasoline/propane.

For me, $1500 for an 8750 W noisy Honda-powered tri-fuel is worth

200/24=8.33 days, esp. with the prospect of another Irene/Halloween, and a fledgling biz. But that is because I can do the whole installation. It would not be worth it to me for the total price of proly $5K+ for a contractor to do it.

Hey Shitty, wadn't it you who was going to do geothermal, and get 100% ROI in, like, 3 years?? Howzat goin?? You were perty quiet in the recent geothermal thread.....

[Ed Pawlowski]

That is why I don't have a generator. One time we were out for two days (hurricane Gloria). Another time we were out for 8 hours. Never had any outages more than 30 minutes at any other time in my life.

I can't justify having $1000 sitting out in the garage not used.

Back to your math. Would you have it running 24 hours a day? I bet that 8.33 days can easily be 16.66 or more.

[nobody]

I suspect the 200 hour figure only applies to the cheap junk from Harbor Fright. I've got 730 hours on a 8000 watt Generac.

[gregz]

I figure on 80 hours in 10 years, on my lawn tractor.

I got a $350(reduced to $300) aldi generator. Looks just like the yamaha or hondas. Probably made by the same company. I need to play around with it. It's a

6kw peak, 5500 continuous. Just looked over consumer reports. Not much of a review. So mine looks like the $2600 yahama. If mine only works 200 hours, probably a good buy.

Greg

[Stormin Mormon]

I bought a generator in 1998. Used it for a couple hours, during the power cut of 2003, and then for the Buffalo NY power cut in 2006. Havn't used it for much anything after that. I know, I ought to run it every month, but it's a real pain to drag it out.

No reason to leave a generator running all day and all night. In my case, an hour of furnace run time in the evening, and some in the morning. In the case of 2006, about two hours of furnace run time, and some sump pump run time, at the same time as the furnace.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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I realize this is an older thread, but I'm just getting to it. Let's see, 200/24 = 8.33. So you're claiming that a typical homeowner won't be needing a generator for a total of just over a week? I'd say anyone who expects that level of reliability from their power company doesn't need a generator at all.

[Stormin Mormon]

In my case, living in NYS, in a trailer. We have the power out for a couple days long, during ice storms. Did that in 1991, 2003, and another part of the state got wiped out, 2006. After the first day, the cold is really miserable, and a generator is nice to have.

You can get a chinky junky at Harbor Freight for under $100, but don't expect 200 hours of run time. Still, that hundred bucks can buy you some furnace run time.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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That is why I don't have a generator. One time we were out for two days (hurricane Gloria). Another time we were out for 8 hours. Never had any outages more than 30 minutes at any other time in my life.

I can't justify having $1000 sitting out in the garage not used.

Back to your math. Would you have it running 24 hours a day? I bet that 8.33 days can easily be 16.66 or more.

[Stormin Mormon]

Very possible. I've heard that Hondas run a long time.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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I suspect the 200 hour figure only applies to the cheap junk from Harbor Fright. I've got 730 hours on a 8000 watt Generac.

[Stormin Mormon]

It's also a good idea to do a practice run. So that you know for sure you have the right wiring, fittings, etc, to make things work. Also a good idea to include other house members in the practice run in case you are sick with the flu, and your spouse, teenagers, or adult children need to run the generator.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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I figure on 80 hours in 10 years, on my lawn tractor.

I got a $350(reduced to $300) aldi generator. Looks just like the yamaha or hondas. Probably made by the same company. I need to play around with it. It's a

6kw peak, 5500 continuous. Just looked over consumer reports. Not much of a review. So mine looks like the $2600 yahama. If mine only works 200 hours, probably a good buy.

Greg

[The Daring Dufas]

Back in the 90's I installed a lot of Generac 8kw units in homes and the gensets had the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard V-twin which is a pretty good engine. The last Generac I installed had the Generac produced V-twin which is a better engine. Which one do you have? ^_^

TDD

[nobody]

Yah, should have included that. It is a Generac XP8000E that I bought in

2009. It has the Generac OHVI engine.

I've put about 200 hours on it during power outages and the rest was put on by a contractor I rented it to.

[nobody]

Honda generators are excellent as well but our local Generac dealer has a very impressive parts, service and loaner department. They do all the commercial stuff like hospitals and large retail stores.

[Stormin Mormon]

Have you had good results with Generac?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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Honda generators are excellent as well but our local Generac dealer has a very impressive parts, service and loaner department. They do all the commercial stuff like hospitals and large retail stores.

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