You're wrong......!!!! I have no idea what you refer to as a "multiquip" generator might be, but we are talking about Generac generators and here are the facts:
The demand for 7 KW from the smaller 6/7K unit in natural gas is 119 cubic feet of natural gas per hour. This is the full load demand of their smallest model.
The demand for 7KW from their largest home standby generator, the 16KW unit, is 173 cubic feet per four. This is half loading of their largest model.
I have linked the actual page (page 7) from the Installer's Manual from Guardian for a fairly recent model year to substantiate this data:
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In the year I made my selection and choice, 2006, the spread was even greater, and is what I previously stated in my earlier post, approx 2 to 1.
I have no problem accepting the notion that each unit has had its engine and generator designed to deliver maximum efficiency near or at the rated size, and thus the largest unit, if used only to half its capacity, is far less efficient at that operating point than a unit designed to produce the actual demand running nearly full power.
Heat exchangers, particularly in the most modern high efficiency furnaces, are similarly narrow banded. Speaking as a retired electrical engineer and hardware designer, I would most likely have chosen the same approach.
No doubt some other manufacturers equipments behave differently, but as the original post requested, we are now discussing Generac standby generators and the way they compare.
Is 'multiquip' the name of a manufacturer of consumer standby generators?
There is no such thing as "standard vebage" in contracts. I recently went out for 5 quotes on a new furnace, for example, and not one of them had that or anything close to it in it.
As to what it means:
"Buyer acknowledges that no express or implied
I'd say it means shyster. The contractor is saying that he does not even have to deliver a product or workmanship that is fit for the intended use. You'd have to be a complete dummy to agree to that. It's questionable if it would even stand up in court. Absent that clause, if a guy supplies me with a generator, it has to at least be functionable, work, etc. With the loophole above, the contractor is saying that even if the generator installation is totally unfit for the intended use, he's not responsible and screw you.
The "Multiquip" generators you are using as your reference are diesel powered job site temporary generators, and are not the type being asked about in this post.
Basing your attack / challenge of "nonsense" on such NONSENSE is classical apples versus oranges type of logic.
Yes, indeed, the Multiquip diesel powered temporary generators do have an entirely different efficiency curve which does not resemble the Generac design used in their home standby generators.............
That's where I'm going. OTOH, he insists that they aren't. I'd like some proof, other than what the guy selling the more expensive unit says.
"Required"? Dou have a cite for that?
Not everything is UL listed (batteries) but that's a good point re: Genrac.
...and the big retailer has the power to tell the supplier what the cost has to be. Sale or no sale.
*Maybe* you can get the same price at the volume. Because they sell so many of everything, they can demand a price that isn't on the normal price sheets. I work for a large company that does similar. "We need it at $x, or no sale". I've specified many components this way; at price $x, I'll design it in. At
is, just what they need to beat).
Makes sense. Expertise isn't free and Walmart doesn't sell it.
Like everything in life, it depends. Sometimes I go to the car dealer for repairs, sometimes not. A lot depends on what the work is, but also on the way I feel about both as businesses.
it has the same model number it's the same unit, although with cars you might find the same model made in different factories, even in different countries.
Costco, with a slightly different model number and different color. I called Canon and they said that the only difference is that the Costco model lacked one feature- you can't plug the camera directly into a Canon DVD burner and directly make a DVD, you have to use a computer. Not wanting to buy a special Canon DVD burner anyway (obviously I have a computer...) I bought the Costco model as well (wanted two cameras).
Agree, a good friend had a similar requirement as the OP. He decided to buy on price and went with the home depot version. I helped them with the panel wiring. When we started it up we couldn't believe how loud it was. So we figured that even though it was a packaged unit maybe we did something wrong. After a bunch of calls the factory guy came out and after some polite conversation he said this unit was made for home depots price point. During that time I needed something at the local industrial service place and I asked about differences. It was slow so the guy invited me back and said they used different components and showed me various differences on the dealer site they used for diagrams and service information.
Sorry, but you jumped into my direct reply to the OP, my reply to where the OP asks "Anyway, has anyone in here have any opinions as to the merits of >>>>>>>> Generac vs. Kohler or some other brands of generators?
My suggestion was to look at 4 pole 1800 RPM generators, and I went on to explain my opinion. I used Multiquip as a reference because their data is easily available. There are plenty of similar fully automatic diesel units available, which have similar specs.
That should be a compelling argument to make in court when the installation is defective and as a result the generator doesn't work, or worse, burns up the generator and the contractor says, per the contract, they are not responsible.
They explicity say there is NO WARRANTY, express or implied. Not that "There is no warranty beyond the warranty as defined in section x, etc" Here it is again:
The
What is an express warranty, if not the warranty that would be spelled out in the contract?
And you'd accept a waiver on merchantability and fitness? That means the generator doesn't even have to function as a reasonable generator should. It's like saying I'll buy a brand new car and waive that it has to be usable as a typical car would be.
I guess I have a real problem with dismissive replies like "Nonsense" when the original poster requested a natural gas standby generator which does not need a fuel replenishment and has a transfer switch which automatically restores utility power. Your reply, with a portable generator is entirely different from what he asks for, has none of these features, and is, if anything, NONSENSE.............
And yes, no doubt you and I can both find all sorts of generators which have all sorts of efficiency differences, including those which do not have a severe penalty for oversizing like the Generac models I cited. Those are, of course, not what the original poster was asking for.
I would ask that you dismiss the replies of others less, given that sometimes they may actually know more about a specific subject than you apparently do.
You need to learn to read, and stop setting up straw men. The OP doesn't "request" anything regarding natural gas generators, he merely mentions their ease of operation. He does however "request" opinions of Generac and Kohler and "other brands". FYI those multiquips as well as other brands of diesels can be set up for fully automatic operation, just like a propane or NG unit. I just thought the OP may want another option
If the guy supplies you with a generator it has to work, but it may not have to function properly. That is the purpose of the clause. If, say you want to buy a 12 KW generator and expect to power a 20 story office building, it won't work properly. The installer may tell you that, but you insist anyway. You cannot hold the installer liable for fitness. It does not mean shyster at all, it means if you are stupid, you can't sue the seller for your own stupidity.
It also means that the written contract is what counts. Thus, if the installer implies anything, don't trust him. If the contractor implies that the factory warranty is 12 months but he will give you 24 moths, you can't go after him in month 18 because it was your own gullibility that allowed him to get away with it. If it is not written, it is not there and not valid. Period. No matter what the salesman may have told you.
Anyone who works with contracts knows about the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which was specifically implemented to have standard verbage for commercial transactions.
It actually means what I said. You may want to do a little research on standard verbage used in commercial contracts.
Why don't people don't just hook up a $300 VW air-cooled engine to a generator head? I've seen those things start up after they've sat for years, and they still run fine.
Because people like you crosspost them to unrelated troll groups, like the two Rush Limbaugh groups and the Baptist group I had to pull from the senders list.
The nearly 80 year old man who originally posted said "a natural gas operated standby does all the work itself, plus knows exactly when the power comes back on."
If you think he wanted a diesel work site Multiquip with wheels, then you are the one with a reading problem.
I think I might even call your reply "Nonsense" since you chose to erroneously bestow that term on me........
The problem is far more prevelant than you state, and happens over and over again for many questions which are posted to this newsgroup. I have posted questions myself here several times and been frustrated by replies which answered some other question or made some very tangential remarks which were partially or entirely off topic. Others have commented on this same problem.
The cross posting adds to the problem. My iPhone newsreader does not show the additional crossposting newsgroups so I may inadvertently reply to such a post without realizing it. I certainly have no way to originate such crossposts.
And as I said before, you need to learn to read. I used Multiquip for data purposes only. There are plenty of fully automatic diesel units without wheels. Who knows, maybe the OP would prefer a high quality diesel, over some cheap consumer grade junk.
And that's where the problem is in this thread: You live in a trailer park. Nothing against trailer parks... have good friends in a couple of them and had a brother in one for about a year. But...
How the hell does that or some suburbanite's experience translate into rural living? It ain't about hating the dark, trust me. Your park may be along a back road... but it isn't likely the same.
Here, we lose power constantly... sometimes for a few hours and sometimes for many, many days at a time. We fill two freezers with meat every fall when we slaughter. How much food do you store in freezers there and what is it's value? If ours goes... there goes our next year's worth food (BTW, do
*not* believe the line about it staying frozen for 3 or 4 days if you don't open it, especially in the summer).
Thank goodness we finally decided to put ventless gas heaters in the cellar... they can keep the pipes from freezing but I gotta tell ya the upstairs can get danged cold after a few days.
When there's a bad storm brewing here we run to put 6 or 7 inches of water in the tub... why? Cause we lose our water without our electric... no toilet, no bathing, no watering the animals without moving them to the side with the artesian. Takes a lot of current on that 240v pump to get it cranking.
Ever try to move steer in a storm? Why would you, you might ask. Well... if the electric is out, so are the fences and when cattle are jittery, they can tell it's not on (or they just get brave enough to find out as some of us argue the situation but I say they know when it's not on). What do you think the ramifications are of some idiot with a canvas Jeep blowing around challenging the foul conditions coming down a wet and windy road and plowing into about 1800 pounds of dinner? We're not talking coaxing Bessie, the chocolate milk cow, from Grandma's window, here... If the spiritual leader of the herd is one of these guys that's been around a few months too long and going nutso and you're out there in foul weather with people they're not used to trying to move them away from what they see as safe, you'd better be wearing your brass supporter that day. It used to be that there weren't all these cars on this road and if there were any they were people smart enough to understand it could be a dangerous place to drive when things get like that. Used to be that if cattle got loose, you spent a day or two looking over the nearby farms and woods or waited them out. Can't do that anymore.
Let's say they are in the ideal spot near the barn and head that way... ever see the lights in a barn dim when those big assed fans kick on? And, these sort of deals always seem to happen when you're dealing with a sick one down in a stall or something.
Sides... nobody out here is not holding a regular job these days... when the power goes down 6 or 7 hours before one gets home, it can really start to get interesting.
The people in the trailer 18 feet away might get angry?!?!?! We have two or three places here that we can actually see and hear and I can guarantee that if the power was down they'd be glad to know that there won't be a parade of beef and pies through their yards because they can hear the generator running. And even if they did care, tough crap to them... shouldn't have moved to the country expecting to make it another piece of suburbia or a trailer park or something.
We have talked a lot about getting the big unit, but not at the $$$ coming in verses the $$$ going out around here. We have three gas wells on the property that were supposed to pay, but, contrary to what they show on TV, gas isn't paying anything now that they've over drilled. Still... as long as they don't shut the wells in due to the glut, we'd have free gas to run the generator with, which, as the OP has suggested, can get costly if running one long term on diesel or gasoline. So, the discussion on this matter goes on at our place.
I'm not 80, but my FIL is 83 and I'm coming up on 57, trying like hell to get my health back after getting the damned Lyme disease and my boy checks into a dorm next weekend. It's looking more and more like I keep driving the jalopy and get the generator.
But, all that said... your experience in a trailer park means squat in this context.
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