Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016 22:19:32 +0000, Stormin' Norman

Brazing and silver soldering uses a flux to take the place of that sheild gas. Propane or MAPP are fine for soldering and brazing. TERRIBLE foir welding. Kinda like Mig welding with no gas and not using flux core wire.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 00:49:05 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You can keep telling me it doesn't work well for welding, but I have used oxy-propane and produced beautiful welds.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 14:07:08 +0000, Stormin' Norman

They may LOOK good, but I'm not sure I'd trust them - see quote from Hobart site below.

From Hobartwelders.com site: IT, makes no difference what the person at the LWS, Fleabay WS, or your neighborhood "Legend in their own Mind" tells you, There is no possible way to get a good weld (ferrous) with any thing other than ACETYLENE!
The only reason you can not weld with any fuel gas other then "ACETYLENE" is you can not achieve a "TRUE" neutral flame. Which means you are adding contamination with slightly oxidizing or carburizing flames.
The oxidizing flame, removes carbon form the weld pool changing the metallurgy of the weld. It converts the carbon to carbon dioxide.
The carburizing flame, adds carbon to the weld pool and will change the metallurgy of the weld pool adversely.
Welding means only, joining ferrous metals!
You can braze,solder,silver braze(miss called silver soldering), heat for bending etc and cutting.
As to hoses: Use only Grade T hose with MAPP,PROPANE PROPYLENE fuel gases.
Use GRADE R,RM,OR T hose with Acetylene.
The make up of the hoses are different and react to the make up of the gases differently.
The biggest differences in the tips is the number, sizes and arrangement of the holes in it. Propane/natural gas tips have smaller and more of them.
The other difference is with an acetylene/oxy flame the hottest part is the inner cone of the flame.
The propane/oxy flame is the outer skirt,(outside skirt of the flame)
Other than that it is only a matter of ease of getting the gases. to refill when the cylinders are empty, or what you have learned on, or have used in the past.
So other than taking a little longer to hit the temperature, If you aren't going to gas weld ferrous materials. It shouldn't be a problem.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 13:00:36 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I guess I had better go out and buy a new 3" x 24' drive shaft for my wind powered well water pump. I welded it using oxy/propane three years ago (after it sheared), it has pumped untold thousands of gallons since then, but, based upon your research, my weld must be garbage and will fail at any moment......
Tell you what, you are right, you win. Oxy/Propane is garbage for welding regardless of my direct, first hand experience.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 16 Dec 2016 14:59:56 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
By the way, did you purchase and try the HF bead breaker as of yet?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 16 Dec 2016 18:30:44 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I went to HF and bought all the weights that they had, and I returned that stupid bead breaker bar (which was useless) but I kept the two 24-inch tire irons.
Since I have been successful at breaking the bead, and since the bead on my friend's automotive tire was a cinch, I decided to stick with the reinforced old bead breaker attachment.
This is the bent bead breaker attachment:
http://i.cubeupload.com/LqS6N4.jpg
This is it straightened out again:
http://i.cubeupload.com/JfWmot.jpg
This is it reinforced with a fence post:
http://i.cubeupload.com/kYwRJt.jpg
This is the red tire iron attachment afterward:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3q4ZU3.jpg
What I now know, and what I would have told anyone who asked the same questions I asked just a couple of days ago, is that the HF tire changer is a POS but you can make it work if you strengthen it up like Clare suggests.
1. You have to put a block of something stiff in that bead breaker arm! 2. You should NOT use the red tire iron for the lever for breaking the bead either (use a pipe because the tire iron bent too). 3. You should replace the clevis adjustment pins (thanks Clare!) with bolts so as to reduce the slop
Once you do those three things, the POS HF tire changer should work to break the bead of the tougher SUV tires (it works fine on easier passenger car tires).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Except for one thing. After spending $500 instead of the budgeted $200 you STILL won't be able to change your tires, and you will end up tearing the beads and gouging the expensive wiener-wagon rims before you figure that out

Find a GOOD shop - they do exist. My brother's old shop tire machine doesn't even need the centers removed from your BBS wheels, and the mounting tools never touch the rim. Any hack that doesn't remove the weights BEFORE removing the tire should be shot. The "high spot" marks oftem make virtually no difference If you just take in the rims to have tires mounted, what pressure are they supposed to use? Or if you use a slightly different sized tire? YOU are responsible for testing the pressure and setting to your requirements. Anyone who doesn't torque the bolts properly should be shot. They are "hacks" not "technicians" You likely bent the rims hitting a curb or pothole - which requires more than just camber and toe to be checked on the alignment.
Your problem is you are going to a cheapeassed schlock tire shop because you are too cheap to go to the dealership. (You call it the stealership)
"If you want first quality oats you have to be willing to pay first quality prices. If you are willing to settle for oats that have been through the horse, they do come a little cheaper"
If you have to ask "how much" for ANYTHING you have no business driving a Bimmer (or a Porsche, or an Audi or a Jag or a Range Rover or a - you get the picture???
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

+ 1
. but - Clare - I need to know - " expensive wiener-wagon rims " Are you besmirching your ancestors ? ! :-) Happy Christmas to all. John T.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:42:18 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

My "Cherman" ancestry is far enough back the square corners have been knocked about as round as his bimmer rims will be after he changes the tires - - -
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:12:12 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

How on earth are you going to get to the lug bolts *without* removing the BBS hubcaps? It's impossible. I don't know what planet you live on, but the math is strange on your planet.

Well then, a *lot* of mechanics who use the dynamic balancing "spinners" need to be shot then.

I agree with you on this.
Especially since it really only applies match mounting onto brand new wheels at the factory.

When I have my four new tires mounted and balanced, I do what everyone else does, which is *drive* the car to the shop who mounts and balances them.
They know it's a BMW. They know that the rears are different pressures from the front. But they just put in whatever their compressor is set to for all cars.
I don't blame them. They're lazy. It costs money to take time to look up the pressure per axle and to adjust the pressure.
At easily $100 to $150 an hour, they don't bother with that.

I don't use non-stock sizes but the fact remains that the tire shop puts the same pressure into everything.
What part of that don't you understand?

Yup. We agree. If you want the job done right, you have to do it yourself.

They don't even *know* the torque for your car! How are they gonna know it? They have to flip through the Mitchells or the Internet, but they don't bother.
That's my point.
It's not hard to figure out that it's 84 foot pounds per lug bolt; but it takes time and they just torque everyone to 90 or 100 foot pounds.

That's a totally different story, but even then, with 5 very soft BBS stock rims on the bimmer, I can put the *best* rims on the front and the worst rim in the trunk, which takes time that the shops just aren't gonna do at $100 to $150 an hour shop rate.

The stealer is upwards of $200/hour and to get your tires mounted and balanced at the stealer is just crazy for a 15 year old bimmer or a 20 year old Toyota.
I go to the Tire Rack Recommended Installers, which you can google and find yourself for your area. They're all about $18 to $40 per tire for a mounting and balancing in my area. I just ran a survey and posted it.

I don't understand how you can totally miss the point. Your sermon is tired and old and just does not fit the facts.
What you say is a trite old wives tale which is meaningless except to old wives.
You can do it yourself and get quality results (static only though). Or, you can pay someone and get quality results.
How much you pay has absolutely no bearing on the quality. For example, I just called the first five of the Tire Rack recommended installers, and one charges $7 plus 70 cents tax for just *disposal* alone for each tire.
None charged less than $3.50 plus 35 cents tax for disposal (not Pep Boys, Autozone, or OReilly's either).
Yet, I called Costco, and they're $1 plus ten cents tax.
Do I get a better quality disposal for my seven dollars and seventy cents? No.
Quality and price have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Period.
People only use price as an indicator of quality because they're too stupid to use a more realistic measure (like, um, the quality of the work for example).

You have so many old wive's tales muddling your thought process that you probably never once thought about what you're saying, to see if it actually makes any sense (using math that works on this planet).
You're just saying stupid clich?s which mean absolutely nothing and really are no help to anyone at all. If you want to believe in stupid clich?s, that's fine, but let's not waste everyone's time discussing stupid clich?s that are worthless and meaningless to everyone but you.
I appreciate the advice and help. I really do. But clich?s are not advice nor help. They're just wastes of our time.
And those stupid clich?s that you spout are never true anyway.
They're only true for idiots who don't know how to do math or who don't know what quality is (because that's too complicated for them than a stupid clich?, which is easy for them to understand).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

From what I've read from you, you don't appear qualified to do *any* job "right". JMHO
--
RonNNN

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:36:56 -0600, RonNNN advised:

How did I do here? https://groups.google.com/forum /#!original/alt.home.repair/k2RT8uicrQo/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:36 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed

Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce

By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement, they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when they are removed to install the other seasonals.

So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their compressor puts out.

Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop.

The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote with your feet.

I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has a chance of doing some good.

BULLSHIT. They have a chart with the torque specs. Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque, and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up with the stud size.

Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100% positive you will screw up more than they do.

Bullshit

Again, bullshit. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the clock, they get paid, so why not take the time??? If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate closely to an hour.

Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire "stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and that you are not when they don't

And you are getting shitty work for that price.

I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if the oats have already been therough the horse.\
And it's NOT "old wive's tales" - I was a service manager at a dealership for 10 years - my retention rate was never under 90%, and exceded 100% for over 5 years. Loosely, that means if the dealership sold 300 cars over the last 3 years, more than 300 customers brought their cars to me for service at least twice a year. It's a bit more complex than that - but it's based on how many vehicles were still coming back for service 3 years after they were sold - and that was back when the warranty was only one year.
That also means customers who didn't like the service they were getting at another dealer voted with their feet and came to me instead. And that was just our toyota customers. We also serviced a fair number of non-toyotas because we had an excellent reputation for service. There has got to be another dealership (or garage) who can provide that kind of service.
I also had lots of customers like you. Bitch, Bitch Bitch BITCH. Didn't matter what you did for them, they were never satisfied - and I could see right away when they came in what kind of trouble they were going to be in most cases. They came in counting on being screwed - they expected it, and no matter what you did, they considered themselves to have been screwed. I had to tell a few of them if they didn't trust me to look after their vehicles, they were not only welcome, but encouraged, to take their bitchiung somewhere else.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

Fair enough. But anyway, the tire shops I've been to don't even carry the five-dollar BBS plastic hubcap wrench. You know what they do instead of twisting off the plastic hubcaps?
They tear them off with a screwdriver. Ask me how I know.

Fair enough. That's how it's *supposed* to be done. But it isn't always done that way (ask me how I know).

I know that. I used to live in cold country. It makes sense to keep a set of rims around for that purpose. It also might make sense to mount and balance your own tires for this purpose, as it would vastly make the payback period sooner since you don't have to spend money on four wheel rims (depends on the cost of the rims, of course).

C'mon. Don't take me for a fool. There are things called R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S on the compressor output. Even you must be aware of that.

These are *all* either Costco, or Tire Rack Recommended Installers. My theory is that they *know* how to change tires, but they also know that almost nobody who comes to them knows how tires are supposed to be changed.
They skip steps to save time, where, for them, time is money. It's that simple.

I *am* voting with my feet.
1. The 460/A/A tires were bought for $68 2. We didn't pay any shipping fees 3. I changed the first tire today https://groups.google.com/forum /#!original/alt.home.repair/k2RT8uicrQo/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ
What's next? a. Change the other 4 tires (I have to move the spare off the rim) b. Balance all five tires (including the spare) c. Align the front camber, caster, and toe at home

Heh heh heh heh ... I have *bitched* as you suggested, and gotten my tires mounted for free. I even was instrumental in getting a tire shop kicked out of the Tire Rack Recommended Program because I documented their foibles.
But I'd rather not bitch. I'd rather just get the job done right, at home.
A. Mounting and repairing tires B. Balancing tires C. Alignment
Those three things, I feel, everyone should know how to do since they only require basic capabilities and basic tools.

Actually, they don't. Long story, I once had a car that was older aligned at Sears and they didn't do anything. They charged me, but they didn't do anything. When I complained, a day later (after checking the bolts because I had painted them after contemplating doing the alignment myself after replacing the tierod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm), they found the only thing correct was the toein, which I had done myself.
When they questioned the tech, he said he didn't have charts for such an old vehicle, so he just didn't do anything.
How many people have they cheated? Thousands I'll bet.
How many people are they *still* cheating? Thousands I bet.
Why? Because they're too lazy to look things up.

Dunno that. All I know is that my bimmer is 84 foot pounds for the lug bolts.

It will be a steep learning curve, but I've already mounted my first tire and I'm sure I'll just get exponentially better with the next four. https://groups.google.com/forum /#!original/alt.home.repair/k2RT8uicrQo/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ
Then I will balance them. Then I will align the car.
Shouldn't be too hard, but as I said, there will be a steep learning curve. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions when the time comes.
But right now, I'm giving back to the team, as all good Usenet posters should. That is why I wrote this up: https://groups.google.com/forum /#!original/alt.home.repair/k2RT8uicrQo/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

You don't seem to have any clue that management won't let them spend an hour or two per vehicle to change the tires.

What you seem to be completely ignorant of is the business model that the management follows, which is that they need to get cars in and out of the bays in order to charge for things done.
You amaze me sometimes. Did you ever work in any company that charged for the job done?

What you post is perfectly apropos for the ladies crocheting group, but this is a home repair group, where people do their own stuff.
Nobody is telling you that YOU have to change your tires yourself, but it's perfectly apropos to ask here.
Plus, I'm clearly doing the job since you can see the photos. How many people are that good that they give back to Usenet with well documented step by step photo filled how tos?
I'm one of the best. I just haven't changed tires before.
Then I will balance them. And then I will align the vehicle.
It's not rocket science but it does take a team, which is why I am here asking those of you who have done it before for advice.

Which is why I am doing it myself.

What's the difference between a Nexen NPriz AH5 sized P225/75R15 from Tire Rack, SimpleTire, or (assuming Costco sells it), Costco?
Answer? Price.
That's about it. Especially if I am going to install them myself.
One price could be double the other. The price has absolutely no bearing on quality.
Anyone who says it does, knows absolutely nothing. They just use price because it's an easy number to compare things.
They simply assume that if TireRack sells the tire for $100 and Costco sells it for $120, then Costco must have a better quality tire.
But it's the same tire no matter where you buy it. The price has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality.
The quality has everything to do with quality. It's really that simple.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

"even" I must be aware of that? You take me for a fool?
I took you for one too, with some pretty good evidence, until you finally proved you COULD figure things out if provoked enough!!! Yes, I know about regulators - but in 50 years experience I've NEVER seen anybody use one to inflate a tire. That takes lazy and stupid to a totally higher level than I've seen - must be a southern thing???

Which is somehow supposed to be some kind of a quality recomendation??

That's what you get at "big box" and "chain" shops - not what you get at a good independent shop or a dealership. Today all of the specs are available to anyone with a smart phone if they don't have the data on the machine. No excuse.. And we were NOT talking alignment - we were talking wheel torque. Put that brain of yours to work - you proved ONCE that you have the brains to figure things out. Use them...

About right for an M12 stud or bolt on an alloy rim. - tire direct's chart says 90 ft lbs except for 2002 to 2008 600 and 700 series and M5 and M6 which are 105 ft lbs (they use 14mm studs/bolts) I imagine that spec is for steel wheels - alloys are generally about 5 ft lb less.

Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out like you finally did with your tire changing. When you check your alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure nothing is bent and the caster isn't off. There is really NOTHING on that car that can change the alignment without bending something, wearing something, or breaking something.
Do your homework on the toe conversion issue. Like I said - project your displaced car centerline about 5 feet minimum ahead of the wheel centerline. then project the wheel angle out to intersect the displaced centerline and make your measurements there. Construct a right angle triangle, as large as possible from the projected lines, and solve the triangle for the hypoteneuse angle. You need to displace the centerline or the triangle will be a block long - - - Again - stop and look at and read and understand the information that has been given to you. Then think about it and you will be able to figure out what you are doing and why.
That's what I always told my students. Don't just ASS U ME the guys giving you advice don't have a clue. I did this for YEARS - and I taught both high school and trade level Auto Mechanics in a "former life". I know how to do it. I've done it. And I've taught many others how to do it.
I've done it in Canada, and I've done it in the bush of Zambia and Burkina Faso - So I've done it with the most advanced and the most basic tools, and I've done it on everything from as basic as a 1928 Chev to Mecedes and Rolls Royce, with just about any level in between you can imagine, as well as industrial and agricultural equipment.
The toe in is the EASY one. because you CAN "amplify" the measurement to increase accuracy. The Camber you can tell if it is appreciably out - but you cannot be accurate enough to say it's out 1/2 a degree - and adjust it accurately. You could be 1/2 a degree out in your initial measurement and end up making irt worse.
As for balancing? You can make it "close" with a bubble balancer, but you will NOT be able to correct a "dynamic balance" problem. Google it and understand it - if you stop to put that brain of yours to work you CAN figure it out and understand why it is impossible to fix a dynamic balance problem with a bubble balancer. Dynamic balance becomes critical at speed - particularly on a car with a lightweight responsive suspension. (which describes your little "wiener wagon" to a tee). If you never drive over 55mph, or never drive on a good smooth highway, and the dynamic balance is not off by more than half an ounce or so (which you will never know) you may not notice any problem. Driving at 65mph and up on a good smooth superhighway and the steering wheel starts doing the tango from side to side? That is almost always due to a dynamic ballance problem. It shimmies. Static balance tramps.. So of course it's more critical on the front wheels of a rear drive car than on a front drive, or on the rear wheels. The "shimmy" even if it does not bother you, is causing wear in the front suspension and steering linkage - so it IS important to have the tires properly dynamic balanced. Most modern tire balancers have 2 modes - standard and "precision". Precision doubles the accuracy of the balancer - down to 1/4 ounce and a degree or so of rotation from the 1/2 ounce accuracy of the "standard" mode. On my own vehicles I always do "precision" and recheck on "precision" after installing the weights. to make sure it zeros. Same thing I did on all luxury or performane vehicles for customers. (and most others as well - it only takes about 15 seconds longer per cycle to run the precision balance - and then I KNOW the customer won't come back)
I had a customer with an earlt Supra come in with a "high speed shimmy" I test drove the car and asked him when I came back from a perfectly smooth 95mph run "how high is high speed". He said he didn't have a clue. the speedo didn't go that high. I precision ballanced the wheels and his roughly 160MPH shimmy dissapeared (the speedo was 150mph, and he pinned it) The problem was about 1/4 ounce of dynamic inbalance on one front tire - - -

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:19:45 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

The tire changing is now very easy.
I did a 60-series passenger-car tire today for a friend who had a flat and it was so easy I looked like I knew what I was doing. The difference is that a normal 60 series passenger tire is a piece of cake compared to these 75-series 108T sidewalls on the SUV.
Nonetheless, I have the 75-series SUV tires all figured out now for how to break the beak so we're pretty much done with this thread for breaking beads.
Next is figuring out the wheel weights to use (I think I am supposed to use PZ, PZU, PST, or PSTU styles but I'm double-checking that as I speak.
Alignment comes after that.
http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg

The problem with the Internet is that everything has to be said, even the stuff that everyone already knows. Especially when it comes to alignment, when 99,999 out of 100,000 people are *scared* to do it themselves.
Even if they weren't scared, 95,000 out of 100,000 can't *think* that hard, because angles and geometries are involved, where some measurements have to be converted from, say, degrees to inches (or vice versa).
So what we end up in *any* alignment thread, is 95% of the people spouting utterly useless warnings that everyone already knows and only 5% of the people helping out on the questions.
You may be in that 5% but you don't need to tell me the stuff that everyone knows. I only need to know *how* to do it.
For the Toyota, the only things that can be adjusted are front caster, camber, and toe, where caster & camber are adjusted together and toe is adjusted separately and last.
Nothing else is adjustable and there is absolutely no indication anywhere that anything is out of alignment, so it's more of a doublecheck than anything else.
Caster can be calculated from camber and camber can be measured directly, as can toe, so, that's the very simple plan of attack.
The actual charts for Toyota SUVs are complex but I'm working on them.
http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:36:41 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

No, respectfully - you need to know WHAT you are doing and WHY before the HOW makes any sense.

You still have not said what Toyota SUV- 4runner, Higlander, FJ Cruiser, older land cruiser, Rav4, Sequoia, or Venza???

The formula is: Caster (deg) = (180 / 3.1415) * [(camber1 - camber2) / (turnangle1 - turnangle2)]
Basically simplified to 57.3X(camber change/degrees of turn)
Turn the wheel in45 degrees. Measure camber. Turn out 45 degrees, read camber.. Subtract camber 1 from camber 2 - say the difference is 5 degrees.. 5 devided by 90 = .055, times57.3= 3.18 degrees of caster.
Without slip plates side loading can affect the camber measurements somewhat which also affects the caster calculation.
So yes, theoretically you CAN measure/calculate caster - but again accuracy is going to be crucial. Good enough to see if you are close - not accurate or repeatable enough, in most cases, to make an accurate fine adjustment. However, the Toyota truck-based SUV front ends are stout enough that unless you have really bashed it about or fooled withit, nothing is going to change unless something wears out ----- The turn-angle is critical to the calculation

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:06:53 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

What I mean is that 99 out of 100 people will tell you why *they* would NOT do their own tire changes, balance, and alignment.
There's *nothing* they can teach me since I already know everything they could possibly say (almost).
There are TONS of reasons *not* to do anything: - why not to go to the moon - why not to go to North Korea - why not to sail around the world etc.
For anything that anyone wants to to, there will be 99 out of 100 people telling them why *they* would not do it.
But that's not helpful when someone tries to do it.
If I was trying to go to the moon, it's not helpful to tell me that there's no air on the moon. Or that the moon is far away.
Do you get my point?
a. If I want to change tires, what's helpful is advice on how to change tires using whatever tools I have at hand
b. If I want to balance tires, what's helpful is advice on how to balance them, using whatever is at hand and whatever can be bought easily
c. If I want to do my alignment at home, what's helpful is advice on how to do it.
What's not helpful are jokes and statements that I'm cheap or a litany of reasons why I should not do it (because I already know all those reasons because those reasons are why 99 out of 100 people don't do it themselves so any fool can come up with them).

I don't think anyone asked, or, if they did, I haven't seen it yet. It's a 4Runner. Pretty simple. It has 4 cams for caster and camber in the front (nothing in the rear).
It has tie rod ends for the toe.
That's it.

I was going to get some turntables (I think) so that I can do the 20 degree (10 to each side) turn angles. That was how I was gonna calculate caster.

This sounds like you know what you're doing because I'm on the Toyota forums and they suggested something similar. Right now the alignment is just in the planning stage, since the tires and balancing comes first.

I think slip plates are in my future.

The spec on the 4Runner is pretty close to 0 camber anyway, and the toe is really, effectively, 1/16th for each wheel to center line. I forget what the caster is (I can look it up easily but I'm not near my books) but I'm not worried about it just yet.
Right now I'm working on the wheels, and I'm reading all the catalogs for wheel weights from the major manufacturers.
Here is the wheel weight catalog for Plombco, for example: http://www.completelube.com/AppGuides/Wheel_Weight_Application_Guide_2015.pdf
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:07:38 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

I should be clear that I already know how to go through the motions. The problem is what to do when the bead won't break.
In that first video above the guy used the same tool that I had:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yz9twasEU

He mounted the tire changer on 2x3s which was a different way of doing it, and he did a tougher tire than the rest of the videos used.
He used a stronger-ply sidewall, and said that the bead was "really really difficult" to break off the wheel. He also bent his bead breaker bar like I did. So, the tool is really too weak for a formidable SUV tire.
He said "car tires would be way easier" than his truck tires that he did. He found putting the tires on was easier than was breaking the bead of the truck (SUV) tires.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the tool is stressed with SUV tires, and that my technique is sound. I just have to find another way to break the SUV tires so I'll probably pick up a single-purpose bead breaker at HF this week.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:07:38 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

Thanks for those links.
Watching this video first, it's actually hilarious in one way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUas5LIY_ok

He's using an entirely different model tool from HF (it has a completely different geometry than the one I have) and he's doing a brand new 14-inch passenger-car tire which even he said in the video is super easy.
In addition, he welded stuff onto his tire changer (he didn't say exactly what he welded though) and his tire changer is totally different than mine in that he doesn't have those two weak arms that bent on mine.
http://i.cubeupload.com/LqS6N4.jpg
His has a steel tube (which will certainly be stronger).
But the non-realistic part of his video was that he used a brand new tire!
So all he did was press down like he was pressing his finger into butter, and the bead broke (in fact, the bead was already broken because there was absolutely no popping sound). He even stepped on the rest of the tire to get the rest of the bead, which means that he was just going through the motions.
It's fine that he was just going through the motions, but I already knew all the motions.
But he also bolted his HF tool to concrete (his bolt hole dimensions are wrong though since nothing larger than 3/8ths will fit in the pre-drilled holes of the tool legs).
He used the same threaded anchors that I did, so that's nice to know. And, he didn't mention it, but you can see that he stacked a shitload of washers under the bolt head, which means he had the same problem that I have which is you need 2-3/4-inch long bolts, but you can only easily get 2-1/2 or 3-inch bolts (he probably used the 3-inch bolts).
So, it was a useful video, but not the same model tire changer as I have, and, his test case was so easy that it simply showed what we already know which is you press down on the bar with the bead shovel in the bead.
He does another tire at time 937 but it's just as easy but at least we "hear" the pop of the bead, which means this bead was actually seated:
https://youtu.be/bUas5LIY_ok?t

https://youtu.be/bUas5LIY_ok?t
7
The video is good for "instructions" for going through the motions, but it's not useful when there is a problem breaking the bead since the bead came off like it was buttered.
The guy blows up a tire at time 1408, which is certainly not standard procedure!
https://youtu.be/bUas5LIY_ok?t

https://youtu.be/bUas5LIY_ok?t
08
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.