Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:47:31 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Tire reviews are especially problematic, since besides the buttmeter you've got variables like car, load weight, driving style, etc. I got lucky once where a guy with the same car as mine did a good, thorough review on TireRack. I got the same tires at Just Tires and was completely satisfied. But every time I've looked there since I've come up empty. I'll still go there first when I need new tires.
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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 16:54:21 -0600, Vic Smith advised:

I agree with you that there is an occasional jewel in the tire reviews, but, overall, they're almost completely useless due to the variability of everything.
What do I use to compare tires? I use the specs printed on the sidewall.
What would I *love* to use? I'd love to use the manufacturers' own test specs!
Where do we get those manufacture test specs for the tires in question? Nexen NPriz AH5 P225/75R15 102S Pattern Code AH5
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 19:04:13 -0600, Dean Hoffman advised:

This video uses the same tool that I have:
https://youtu.be/_J_2SD-snd0

https://youtu.be/_J_2SD-snd0

And he explained a bit about how the bead breaker shovel bends like mine did.
Unlike the other video, at least his beads popped off with a sound, so you know he was really breaking a bead.
That guy also used a 3/8ths in bolt which was too long! He didn't use the washers that the previous guy did with the drop-in anchors.
So it looks like everyone has the same problem that you need 2-2/4 inch bolts and not a quarter inch either way but none of them bother to mention that (so you have to know to look for it which means you have to already know about it to know to look for it).
But, overall, the tire he had was a low profile tire which is totally different from a SUV high profile tire, so, for bead breaking the video was useless.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:40:43 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

He's a bit of a hack too

Like I said

The low profile tires are harder in my experience. And like he said the tire changer will scratch your expensive rims breaking the bead, fastening the rim to the changer, and removing and replacing the tire because it's all cheap rough steel - no plastic protectors, and no engineering behind it.
It's JUNK - and in the hands of an inexperienced user or a hack, it can do a lot of damage to itself and the rims.
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 23:45:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

m It's a pretty mediocre bead breaker - and even a good one often needs to be applied to several points around the tire to knock it down. The (cheap) breaker sometimes needs to be tied with a twisted rope to keep them against the rim.. Helps to have it adjusted properly too.
You are really going to need to change a lot of tires to pay for the equipment with the money saved by not having someone else do it, and I'll bet you ruin a few tires in the process.
If you are doing it yourself because you don't trust tire shops, "rots 'a ruck,"
If you want instructions, look at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yz9twasEU
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUas5LIY_ok

As an apprentice mechanic in the sixties I changed hundreds of tires with a commercial quality manual changer very similar in concept to that machine - got it down to about 4 minutes a tire to strip and re-install a typical 14 or 15 inch bias ply automotive tire - about 16 minutes for a full set of 4 - including removing and installing the wheels on the car (not including putting it up on the hoist or removing hub caps/wheel covers)
Not a whole lot faster with the air powered machines that took it's place, but a whole lot less sweat!!!.
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 20:07:38 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

I have to agree with you that it's a "mediocre" bead breaker because I bent the heck out of the breaker arm last night working on the one spare tire that I have (it's not my SUV - I'm helping a relative by doing her tires):
http://i.cubeupload.com/LqS6N4.jpg
I don't have welding equipment, but I should probably weld on stronger steel to make the arms more rigid:
http://i.cubeupload.com/mdLDK0.jpg

I had calculated about $200 for the tools which, at about $20 per tire, is about 10 tires. That's about two years payback time, assuming tires changed on two cars every two years plus a flat fix once every two years per car (which is about my rate).
So, pretty much, I'm going through 10 tires on two cars every two years so two years from now, it will have paid for itself.

Tire shops suck. 1. They don't remove BBS hubcaps with the tool (they just pry them off) 2. They don't remove all the old weights (they just put on more) 3. They don't line up the heavy (or high) spot (they just use more weight) 4. They don't pressurize the tires correctly (everyone gets the same psi) 5. They don't torque lug nuts/bolts correctly (ditto on egalitarianism) 6. I've had bent BMW rims (I think they did it but I can't prove that)
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

When working with automotive size tires, makes sure the tire is warm (put it in the heated part of the house, if you are in a cold environment, for a while before trying to break the bead).
Make sure you have removed the valve stem core.
Put a little diluted liquid soap where the rim meets the tire.
If possible, stand on the area of the tire where you are attempting to break the bead. This will add some additional force without exerting any effort.
We use our HF bead breaker for tractor and other yard equipment tires, some of them are pretty large.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:14:35 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Which bead breaker do you use?
Is it this one?
http://i.cubeupload.com/ics54M.jpg
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:24 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Yes, except the base is painted orange, I assume it is the older version.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:25:01 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Thanks for that information.
Why does your experience totally clash with that of snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca though?
I suspect Clare has never actually changed a tire using these tools where you have?
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Attempting to pit one persons experience against another's is a good way to stir up trouble. I urge you to refrain from such questions.
I live in a warm environment which ensures the tire is more pliable then when it is cold. When we dismount tires, we use soapy warm water and a lot of patience, perspiration and military "surplus" tire spoons after the bead is broken. We also drop the tire onto concrete from several feet high and we bounce it several times after we have removed the valve core.
We don't do it often enough to justify owning one of the larger, pneumatic or hydraulic units. We also don't do this with car tires, I much prefer Costco or Discount Tire for the road vehicles. No scratching of wheels and they can dynamically balance the tires / wheels.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:41:50 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Thanks for the advice to warm and bounce the tire. Someone else mentioned warming, so, since I only have the one spare wheel with me now (it's not my SUV) I have it inside the living room warming up.
I will bounce it and try again, but I wasn't able to buy the bead breaker tool from HF today (I'll do it tomorrow). I am hoping to get the SUV to work on tomorrow night if I can have it in my garage for an hour to change the four other tires (I have to move the spare too so I'll be dismounting and mounting a total of five tires even though she only bought four).

I agree with you. An air-operated unit is overkill. It's like having an alignment rack, which is overkill for home use.

Costco only sells something like two brands, and they take forever to do the tires, but they do give you free stuff like nitrogen and rotations although the free rotation is worthless because you can rotate at home in far less time than it takes at Costco.

Did you see the wheels I'm working on?
http://i.cubeupload.com/LqS6N4.jpg
Scratching isn't a problem.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:32:28 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having purchased the tires from them.
One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer and they did it all for free......
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman

Funny you should mention that. I just got back from Fannie Mae Candies, where I purchased 8 half pound boxes of Chocolate Citrus Peel. Gifts for a wedding anniversary and Christmas. I mentioned to the young guy packing my candies that my wife would kill me if she knew I took the '93 Grand Am out of the garage in 11F weather. She just doesn't trust that car. That got him going on his all time favorite car, his '03 Grand Am. It took him about 15 minutes to pack 6 boxes (they had 2 ready to go), as we chatted about Grand Ams - and his current Chevy Cruze. Bottom line is he only charged me for 6 boxes, a full 25% discount. Nice guy, but I can't say I agree with his choice of cars.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me.
If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times where tires are taxed three times!)
Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus sales tax of about 35 cents.
Costco is the best for some things. However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection.
I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up. It takes far too long. Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when they run their annual tire sales).
Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't).
But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air. But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online.
But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken, etc.).
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire, in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online sellers.
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I understand, and appreciate your recommendation. I used to do all the things everyone else does, so I'm familiar with every way to buy tires (if I skipped a method, let me know).
1. When I was a kid in college, I bought tires at junk yards right off of junked cars, but I stopped doing that when my five-dollar tires wobbled while driving. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what the vibration was, because the tires looked fine. People would point to my tires as they drove by, when one day, a guy followed me off the highway and told me my tires were flexing like a balloon. Replacing those junk-yard tires solved my vibration problem; but it could have been (much) worse.
2. Swearing off junk-yard tires, I would then buy tires on sale at Sears. They sold them mostly by warranty (of all things). So I would buy the tires based on warranty as I recall (although this was in the day of bias ply so I don't remember all the details). I do remember looking at a wall of mounted tires at sears and trying to figure out what was the best tire (which was basically impossible to do that way - but I didn't realize it at the time).
3. Over the years, I learned about TireRack from the Motor Trend and Car and Driver car magazine advertisements (there were two main companies that always advertised with a full page of teeny tiny print that I could actually read without glasses in those days before the Internet). It was still impossible to select among tires, but at least the price was a *lot* lower than it was at Sears. Tire Rack would ship to the recommended installer and the installer would give me the Tire Rack price.
4. At some point, radial tires showed up (which lasted longer than the 25K miles that bias ply lasted) and UTQG appeared as did Price Club (now Costco), so at least I could now select tires from the floor-to-ceiling piles at Costco by the UTQG numbers (and not by a silly warranty figure).
5. Finally, I got used to buying stuff on the Internet, and that was it for buying anything locally, simply because of the stupendously huge price difference. Sure, almost everyone will *match* almost everyone else, but what good is *matching*?
I never understood price matching. What's the appeal?
Under most circumstances, they match the same price you can get elsewhere. Um. So what? That's not any better. And, often it's worse (because of sales tax and selection considerations.)
The *only* reason, IMHO, to price match, is if there is *something* you get for free out of the price match. But if all you get is the same tire at the same price that you would have gotten anyway - what's the benefit of price matching?
I'd rather give my business to the guy who advertises and sells at the lowest price than to the guy who advertises and sells at a higher price who only drops his price when you put a gun to his head.
Of course, if you get *something* for free from price matching, then it makes total sense. Many examples can occur, but I'll just flesh out a typical one which is that, say, you can get tires in 10 days from company X online, where the total cost (let's say) is $400 for 4 tires, shipped, taxed, and installed.
If you walk up to a tire shop, and say "will you match this price" and if they match the *price*, then you're getting something for free because you don't have to wait the 10 days for shipping.
So, to me, price matching is utterly useless unless you get something for free out of the deal, other than price. To me, *price beating* is what I like! If someone says they will *beat* the Internet price by, say, 10 percent, that's worth switching.
But just price matching?
Naaah. That's like replacing your favorite toolbox hammer with another exactly similar hammer. There's no benefit whatsoever to the swap, and the original hammer deserves a bit more respect.
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 14:47:30 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

Price "matching" is only good if they will BEAT the lowest price

And LEGALLY you are REQUIRED to submit the local tax on product you order in from outside the state if they do not have a business presence in your state. If they DO have a presence in your state, they are requireds to charge the tax applicable in your state. Whether this is enforced or not, I don't know.

There will always be someone who will sell at a lower price

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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:20:56 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca advised:

I agree with that statement. Only that's not price "matching"; that's price "beating" which is a good thing.
Matching, as far as I can tell, is useless, unless (as I said) you get something hidden for free (like no tax or less time or no shipping or whatever).

That's debatable but I'm not a tax lawyer or accountant so I can't tell you if it is or not since interstate commerce is a tricky thing which is regulated federally and not by the states.
Suffice to say it's not enforced anyway, and, if it was, it would merely shove almost all commerce overseas where it couldn't be enforced.
It's how "fluid" things work.
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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:54:39 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron

It can be enforced there too. Customs agents can tighten up the border so tight a flea couldn't get through. If they think there is enough money to be had to make it worth while, and the state governments work alonf with the feds instead of being ignorant about everything, the Feds can enforce the state tax laws too. Everything coming in gets taxed according to it's destination - no exceptions - and both the states and the feds win - and Trump gets to "Make America Great Again"
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