Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

Fair enough. But anyway, the tire shops I've been to don't even carry the five-dollar BBS plastic hubcap wrench. You know what they do instead of twisting off the plastic hubcaps?

They tear them off with a screwdriver. Ask me how I know.

Fair enough. That's how it's *supposed* to be done. But it isn't always done that way (ask me how I know).

I know that. I used to live in cold country. It makes sense to keep a set of rims around for that purpose. It also might make sense to mount and balance your own tires for this purpose, as it would vastly make the payback period sooner since you don't have to spend money on four wheel rims (depends on the cost of the rims, of course).

C'mon. Don't take me for a fool. There are things called R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S on the compressor output. Even you must be aware of that.

These are *all* either Costco, or Tire Rack Recommended Installers. My theory is that they *know* how to change tires, but they also know that almost nobody who comes to them knows how tires are supposed to be changed.

They skip steps to save time, where, for them, time is money. It's that simple.

I *am* voting with my feet.

1. The 460/A/A tires were bought for
2. We didn't pay any shipping fees
3. I changed the first tire today

What's next? a. Change the other 4 tires (I have to move the spare off the rim) b. Balance all five tires (including the spare) c. Align the front camber, caster, and toe at home

Heh heh heh heh ... I have *bitched* as you suggested, and gotten my tires mounted for free. I even was instrumental in getting a tire shop kicked out of the Tire Rack Recommended Program because I documented their foibles.

But I'd rather not bitch. I'd rather just get the job done right, at home.

A. Mounting and repairing tires B. Balancing tires C. Alignment

Those three things, I feel, everyone should know how to do since they only require basic capabilities and basic tools.

Actually, they don't. Long story, I once had a car that was older aligned at Sears and they didn't do anything. They charged me, but they didn't do anything. When I complained, a day later (after checking the bolts because I had painted them after contemplating doing the alignment myself after replacing the tierod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm), they found the only thing correct was the toein, which I had done myself.

When they questioned the tech, he said he didn't have charts for such an old vehicle, so he just didn't do anything.

How many people have they cheated? Thousands I'll bet.

How many people are they *still* cheating? Thousands I bet.

Why? Because they're too lazy to look things up.

Dunno that. All I know is that my bimmer is 84 foot pounds for the lug bolts.

It will be a steep learning curve, but I've already mounted my first tire and I'm sure I'll just get exponentially better with the next four.

Then I will balance them. Then I will align the car.

Shouldn't be too hard, but as I said, there will be a steep learning curve. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions when the time comes.

But right now, I'm giving back to the team, as all good Usenet posters should. That is why I wrote this up:

You don't seem to have any clue that management won't let them spend an hour or two per vehicle to change the tires.

What you seem to be completely ignorant of is the business model that the management follows, which is that they need to get cars in and out of the bays in order to charge for things done.

You amaze me sometimes. Did you ever work in any company that charged for the job done?

What you post is perfectly apropos for the ladies crocheting group, but this is a home repair group, where people do their own stuff.

Nobody is telling you that YOU have to change your tires yourself, but it's perfectly apropos to ask here.

Plus, I'm clearly doing the job since you can see the photos. How many people are that good that they give back to Usenet with well documented step by step photo filled how tos?

I'm one of the best. I just haven't changed tires before.

Then I will balance them. And then I will align the vehicle.

It's not rocket science but it does take a team, which is why I am here asking those of you who have done it before for advice.

Which is why I am doing it myself.

What's the difference between a Nexen NPriz AH5 sized P225/75R15 from Tire Rack, SimpleTire, or (assuming Costco sells it), Costco?

Answer? Price.

That's about it. Especially if I am going to install them myself.

One price could be double the other. The price has absolutely no bearing on quality.

Anyone who says it does, knows absolutely nothing. They just use price because it's an easy number to compare things.

They simply assume that if TireRack sells the tire for $100 and Costco sells it for $120, then Costco must have a better quality tire.

But it's the same tire no matter where you buy it. The price has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality.

The quality has everything to do with quality. It's really that simple.

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:36:56 -0600, RonNNN advised:

How did I do here?

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:16:44 -0800, Oren advised:

Oren. You are dead wrong.

But, let me prove it. Do you see this post as a troll? Why or why not?

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:02:13 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

So have I, but they were motorcycle tires.

Look. I think you forget what newsgroup this is. Look at the newsgroup.

Is this the ladies auxiliary club?

If all you're gonna do is spout that you have to get tires changed at a professional shop, then maybe the ladies crocheting group is more apropos for you?

Let me ask you a fair and simple question, since we covered this topic already so you know where I'm coming from.

What would you say if there is no vibration after a set of tires were mounted?

Would you *still* spend the $80 bucks (minimum) to have the wheels dynamically road-force balanced?

Why?

I did my pitman arm, idler arm, and tie rod ends, and aligned the car myself (long story with Sears charging for the alignment and never doing it).

That was years ago, before I learned that almost all tire and alignment shops are crooks.

Alignment is next on my list, by the way, but since I now have the bead-braking and mounting part solved, I first am going to tackle the balancing.

After balancing, I'll tackle alignment.

My plan for alignment is as simple (and logical) as my plan for balancing.

I'm going to align the SUV myself (since all it takes is front caster, camber, and toe). The rear is a solid axle and can't be adjusted.

Then I'm gonna find a shop that does free checks, and if my alignment is correct, the check is free. If not, I pay for the alignment.

What do you see as a pitfall in my simple and logical plan?

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me.

If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times where tires are taxed three times!)

Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus sales tax of about 35 cents.

Costco is the best for some things. However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection.

I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up. It takes far too long. Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when they run their annual tire sales).

Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't).

But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air. But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online.

But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken, etc.).

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:11:45 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

I think we got a far better deal than you do, because we *thought* about the problem set ahead of time, so as to maximize what our money buys.

For example, we chose the tires for their $68 price, and for their 460 traction, A treadwear, and A temperature ratings, based on the OEM specs from Toyota of a 102S P225/75R15 tire for the OEM wheels.

Normally we use Tire Rack but

gave them to us for free shipping (which saved $16 per tire right off the bat). It did take about 10 days (including the weekend) so that was one drawback, but in general, a few days extra time isn't all that critical when deciding to replace a set of tires.

So, the total cost for 4 460/A/A tires was, literally, $68 per tire.

Again, you are filled to the brim with cliches, but you're welcome to them. This is a *technical* question, not a philosophical one. You can wax philosophically on alt.philosophy or alt.economic.theory.

You probably should be waxing on alt.philosophy for this post.

Heh heh heh heh ... you make me laugh.

You're actually *scared* of people like me. Because I can do things that you wouldn't dare do yourself.

I may start out ignorant, but I end up knowing far more than you ever will. That's not because I'm smarter than you are; I'm just far more willing to learn than you are.

And, I'm certainly far more willing to give back since I know that the power of Usenet is not only being able to ask experts questions, but to also give back so that the next person stands on our shoulders.

Here's an example of classic Usenet giving back to the team:

[Frank Baron]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:01:48 -0600, Vic Smith advised:

Thanks for the encouragement.

This is alt.home.repair so it's not alt.ladies.cardgames.

I presume you guys do things.

Changing a tire can't be difficult for most of you guys.

Anyway, with all your great advice, I was able to redesign the tire-changing machine and get the job done.

I wrote up the steps I used over here so that others can start where I left off (20/20 hindsight being what it is, I would have done things differently so I want others to benefit from my experience):

One minor remaining question is what tool do you guys use to remove and replace the crimp-on weights?

[Stormin' Norman]

Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire, in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online sellers.

[Frank Baron]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I understand, and appreciate your recommendation. I used to do all the things everyone else does, so I'm familiar with every way to buy tires (if I skipped a method, let me know).

1. When I was a kid in college, I bought tires at junk yards right off of junked cars, but I stopped doing that when my five-dollar tires wobbled while driving. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what the vibration was, because the tires looked fine. People would point to my tires as they drove by, when one day, a guy followed me off the highway and told me my tires were flexing like a balloon. Replacing those junk-yard tires solved my vibration problem; but it could have been (much) worse.
2. Swearing off junk-yard tires, I would then buy tires on sale at Sears. They sold them mostly by warranty (of all things). So I would buy the tires based on warranty as I recall (although this was in the day of bias ply so I don't remember all the details). I do remember looking at a wall of mounted tires at sears and trying to figure out what was the best tire (which was basically impossible to do that way - but I didn't realize it at the time).
3. Over the years, I learned about TireRack from the Motor Trend and Car and Driver car magazine advertisements (there were two main companies that always advertised with a full page of teeny tiny print that I could actually read without glasses in those days before the Internet). It was still impossible to select among tires, but at least the price was a *lot* lower than it was at Sears. Tire Rack would ship to the recommended installer and the installer would give me the Tire Rack price.
4. At some point, radial tires showed up (which lasted longer than the 25K miles that bias ply lasted) and UTQG appeared as did Price Club (now Costco), so at least I could now select tires from the floor-to-ceiling piles at Costco by the UTQG numbers (and not by a silly warranty figure).
5. Finally, I got used to buying stuff on the Internet, and that was it for buying anything locally, simply because of the stupendously huge price difference. Sure, almost everyone will *match* almost everyone else, but what good is *matching*?

I never understood price matching. What's the appeal?

Under most circumstances, they match the same price you can get elsewhere. Um. So what? That's not any better. And, often it's worse (because of sales tax and selection considerations.)

The *only* reason, IMHO, to price match, is if there is *something* you get for free out of the price match. But if all you get is the same tire at the same price that you would have gotten anyway - what's the benefit of price matching?

I'd rather give my business to the guy who advertises and sells at the lowest price than to the guy who advertises and sells at a higher price who only drops his price when you put a gun to his head.

Of course, if you get *something* for free from price matching, then it makes total sense. Many examples can occur, but I'll just flesh out a typical one which is that, say, you can get tires in 10 days from company X online, where the total cost (let's say) is $400 for 4 tires, shipped, taxed, and installed.

If you walk up to a tire shop, and say "will you match this price" and if they match the *price*, then you're getting something for free because you don't have to wait the 10 days for shipping.

So, to me, price matching is utterly useless unless you get something for free out of the deal, other than price. To me, *price beating* is what I like! If someone says they will *beat* the Internet price by, say, 10 percent, that's worth switching.

But just price matching?

Naaah. That's like replacing your favorite toolbox hammer with another exactly similar hammer. There's no benefit whatsoever to the swap, and the original hammer deserves a bit more respect.

[clare]

By George - when he stops to think he actually CAN figure things out!!!!!! From the questions origionally asked it appeared he could not find his ass with both hands - He has surprised me. My appologies

- seriously. but I'd still be wary of using THAT tire changer on the expensive alloy rims without some more "modifications" You really surprised me Frank -- Kudos. I'm man enought o admit when I've been wrong.....

[clare]

Oh no - after what I just said, here we go again!!!! A damned wheel weight pliers, of coarse!!! Google "wheel weight pliers"

[Idlehands]

A better question is why does Danny keep changing names?

[clare]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron wrote:

"even" I must be aware of that? You take me for a fool?

I took you for one too, with some pretty good evidence, until you finally proved you COULD figure things out if provoked enough!!! Yes, I know about regulators - but in 50 years experience I've NEVER seen anybody use one to inflate a tire. That takes lazy and stupid to a totally higher level than I've seen - must be a southern thing???

Which is somehow supposed to be some kind of a quality recomendation??

That's what you get at "big box" and "chain" shops - not what you get at a good independent shop or a dealership. Today all of the specs are available to anyone with a smart phone if they don't have the data on the machine. No excuse.. And we were NOT talking alignment - we were talking wheel torque. Put that brain of yours to work - you proved ONCE that you have the brains to figure things out. Use them...

About right for an M12 stud or bolt on an alloy rim. - tire direct's chart says 90 ft lbs except for 2002 to 2008 600 and 700 series and M5 and M6 which are 105 ft lbs (they use 14mm studs/bolts) I imagine that spec is for steel wheels - alloys are generally about 5 ft lb less.

Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out like you finally did with your tire changing. When you check your alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure nothing is bent and the caster isn't off. There is really NOTHING on that car that can change the alignment without bending something, wearing something, or breaking something.

Do your homework on the toe conversion issue. Like I said - project your displaced car centerline about 5 feet minimum ahead of the wheel centerline. then project the wheel angle out to intersect the displaced centerline and make your measurements there. Construct a right angle triangle, as large as possible from the projected lines, and solve the triangle for the hypoteneuse angle. You need to displace the centerline or the triangle will be a block long - - - Again - stop and look at and read and understand the information that has been given to you. Then think about it and you will be able to figure out what you are doing and why.

That's what I always told my students. Don't just ASS U ME the guys giving you advice don't have a clue. I did this for YEARS - and I taught both high school and trade level Auto Mechanics in a "former life". I know how to do it. I've done it. And I've taught many others how to do it.

I've done it in Canada, and I've done it in the bush of Zambia and Burkina Faso - So I've done it with the most advanced and the most basic tools, and I've done it on everything from as basic as a 1928 Chev to Mecedes and Rolls Royce, with just about any level in between you can imagine, as well as industrial and agricultural equipment.

The toe in is the EASY one. because you CAN "amplify" the measurement to increase accuracy. The Camber you can tell if it is appreciably out

- but you cannot be accurate enough to say it's out 1/2 a degree - and adjust it accurately. You could be 1/2 a degree out in your initial measurement and end up making irt worse.

As for balancing? You can make it "close" with a bubble balancer, but you will NOT be able to correct a "dynamic balance" problem. Google it and understand it - if you stop to put that brain of yours to work you CAN figure it out and understand why it is impossible to fix a dynamic balance problem with a bubble balancer. Dynamic balance becomes critical at speed - particularly on a car with a lightweight responsive suspension. (which describes your little "wiener wagon" to a tee). If you never drive over 55mph, or never drive on a good smooth highway, and the dynamic balance is not off by more than half an ounce or so (which you will never know) you may not notice any problem. Driving at 65mph and up on a good smooth superhighway and the steering wheel starts doing the tango from side to side? That is almost always due to a dynamic ballance problem. It shimmies. Static balance tramps.. So of course it's more critical on the front wheels of a rear drive car than on a front drive, or on the rear wheels. The "shimmy" even if it does not bother you, is causing wear in the front suspension and steering linkage - so it IS important to have the tires properly dynamic balanced. Most modern tire balancers have 2 modes - standard and "precision". Precision doubles the accuracy of the balancer - down to 1/4 ounce and a degree or so of rotation from the 1/2 ounce accuracy of the "standard" mode. On my own vehicles I always do "precision" and recheck on "precision" after installing the weights. to make sure it zeros. Same thing I did on all luxury or performane vehicles for customers. (and most others as well - it only takes about 15 seconds longer per cycle to run the precision balance - and then I KNOW the customer won't come back)

I had a customer with an earlt Supra come in with a "high speed shimmy" I test drove the car and asked him when I came back from a perfectly smooth 95mph run "how high is high speed". He said he didn't have a clue. the speedo didn't go that high. I precision ballanced the wheels and his roughly 160MPH shimmy dissapeared (the speedo was

150mph, and he pinned it) The problem was about 1/4 ounce of dynamic inbalance on one front tire - - -

[Frank Baron]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:19:45 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

The tire changing is now very easy.

I did a 60-series passenger-car tire today for a friend who had a flat and it was so easy I looked like I knew what I was doing. The difference is that a normal 60 series passenger tire is a piece of cake compared to these

75-series 108T sidewalls on the SUV.

Nonetheless, I have the 75-series SUV tires all figured out now for how to break the beak so we're pretty much done with this thread for breaking beads.

Next is figuring out the wheel weights to use (I think I am supposed to use PZ, PZU, PST, or PSTU styles but I'm double-checking that as I speak.

Alignment comes after that.

The problem with the Internet is that everything has to be said, even the stuff that everyone already knows. Especially when it comes to alignment, when 99,999 out of 100,000 people are *scared* to do it themselves.

Even if they weren't scared, 95,000 out of 100,000 can't *think* that hard, because angles and geometries are involved, where some measurements have to be converted from, say, degrees to inches (or vice versa).

So what we end up in *any* alignment thread, is 95% of the people spouting utterly useless warnings that everyone already knows and only 5% of the people helping out on the questions.

You may be in that 5% but you don't need to tell me the stuff that everyone knows. I only need to know *how* to do it.

For the Toyota, the only things that can be adjusted are front caster, camber, and toe, where caster & camber are adjusted together and toe is adjusted separately and last.

Nothing else is adjustable and there is absolutely no indication anywhere that anything is out of alignment, so it's more of a doublecheck than anything else.

Caster can be calculated from camber and camber can be measured directly, as can toe, so, that's the very simple plan of attack.

The actual charts for Toyota SUVs are complex but I'm working on them.

[clare]

No - you finally put your brain in gear. Keep it up. But don't let your head get TOO big.

The machine as supplied is CRAP - but it doesn't take MUCH to make it half-assed decent. Get a steel plate welden in place of the fence-post. Put proper bolts (a bit bigger because the fit is sloppy) into properly re-drilled holes, and install washers where necessary to take out the slop in the linkages.. Cut the big handle in half and drive in a rod or sched 40 pipe , then weld the thing back together - now it's strong enough to do the job without turning into a pretzel.

Then you'll find the next weak point (hint - the guy who welded the base legs was onto something) When you are done you'll have a useable tire machine that might last you a while. - still not a GREAT machine - but better than what you have.

There's a you-tube out there of a guy who made his own - the rubber tired steel wheel replacing that awfull spider is a good mod - as is the one I posted before of the guy using rubber tire sidewall material. Look them up. Think about what the guys are doing and why instead of just going off half cocked about how it doesn't tell you anything.

You need to STOP and THINK. If it doesn't make sense. look again and UNDERSTAND what they did and why. Sometimes the guys on you-tube ARE wrong - but you won't know untill you look at what they did, how, and why.

If you don't, your comebacks and (sometimes very) dumb questions make you look liike an idiot.

If you are gainfully employed the time spent MIGHT be better spent earning the money to pay someone else to do the job, if the price of having it done properly by someone who does a good job is the issue. If you are doing it more because you enjoy it and you really want to learn how to do things right, and learn about how things REALLY work - that's a differnt story - but then, take in all the information you can from those of us who have been there , done that, and got the tee-shirt greasy. Don't go out of your way to make enemies of the guys who can help you understand what you don't know....

[Frank Baron]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:21:15 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

Turns out, after some research and talking to the pros, there's really no need for those wheel-weight pliers just as there is absolutely no need for any special valve removal or insertion tools.

Still, some tools are just nice to have even if they're not necessary.

I already bought the valve-puller tool, for example, mainly because I wanted to feel for myself how much easier it made an already easy task of removing and inserting the valves.

I'll probably do the same experiment for the wheel weight puller tool:

[Frank Baron]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:19:12 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

I used the tire changer on 60-series 16-inch alloy wheels today because I offered to fix a flat for a friend where I warned him it might be difficult.

This passenger tire was so easy, it made me look like a professional.

So, I think it's just that my testcase of the 75-series 108T sidewall Optimo tires is just a more difficult case (by far) than a normal passenger tire.

We didn't balance that alloy wheel because we didn't change the tire and when I put it on the static balancer, it was fine.

But I'm going to have to balance the five steel wheels of the Toyota.

Right now, I'm looking at what wheel weight style to buy, since it's a Toyota steel rim.

It seems from this PDF that the right type is the "P" type (whether PZU, PZ, PST, or PSTU doesn't really matter) but I'm double checking that assumption as we speak.

[clare]

And I've done it on tires that would flatten you if they dropped on you, as well as standard sized automobile and light truck tires.

No, actually it is alt HOME REPAIR

You are being a prick again. Read the messages posted just before this one, and take to heart.

Dynamic yes, road force, no Read my earlier reply tonight for the reason why.

SEARS??? You gotta be JOKING. They have been outed for decades as being one of the biggest rip-offs in the "automotive" business., and their "alignment scams" are the most well publicised. Take your car to AN ALIGNMENT SPECIALIST

Not nearly all - but the "chain" shops most definitely. Find a local independent shop with a good front end man. They are worth their weight in gold.

The only pitfall is most "free alignment checks" are worth exactly what you pay for them - or less.

Replacing your own parts, as long as you are careful and thorough, is not a bad way to save some money and have some "fun" at the same time. Just make sure you torque everything properly and don't miss any cotter pins etc - - - Doing a simple re-alignment of the toe is pretty simple - at least to get it close enough you can safely drive it to a good shop to have it verified.and corrected if possible. Having the rear track checked is not a bad idea either - you don't say what kind of "SUV" it is, but there have been many cases of the rear axle being out of line, causing the vehicle to "dog-track" wearing tires and affecting handling.. A GOOD shop can correct that. Lots of "SUV"s with bent axle housings too, which can throw out the toe and or camber - and also cause accelerated failure of the differential bearings. Have it checked at least once - and again if it ever gets ANY SERIOUS OFF-ROAD DRIVING.

[clare]

If they are busy- rushed off their feet mounting their customers' tires - purchased from them - why would they install tires you got somewhere else, making the wait for their customers even longer? Stop. Think. Understand. It's BUSINESS.

Depends on your tolerance - and the hassle you have to go through when you have problems with your on-line-ordered stuff (and it is WHEN, not IF - it WILL happen!!!)

They are great for anything you use a lot of and therfore buy in quantity. Did you see they are opening some new locations that go "back to basics" - back to where they started - as a wholesale supplier for small businesses??? That's what they were when I first dealt with them. They will have no custom meat cutting, no tire and auto center, no eye-glasses or hearing aids or jewelry a,d a whole lot less apparel - but more range in office equipment and supplies, tools, etc that small businesses will need - and cater more to the "mom-and-pop" stores and eateries with their foodstuffs etc..

[Frank Baron]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:38:46 -0500, [e-mail] advised:

Clare,

You are making sense. I agree with you. I only shoved the fence post in there as an American ingenuity hack, but the real solution would be to weld in some steel reinforcement, I agree.

To that end, I have a friend who will sell me his old oxy acetylene setup, so, I will pick that up soon (the tanks are empty so I will need to fill them up). I'll learn how to weld, which should be a useful skill anyway.

This is a great idea Clare, and I appreciate it. There was far too much slop in those linkages, and, I didn't mention it, but the clovis pin bent like it was made out of putty when I pulled it out.

So, you're totally correct that there is far too much slop, which allows the pressure to not be straight down, which not only lessens the force on the bead, but puts force on the tool to the side where it bends the metal.

The HF tool *is* crap - but it can be reinforced.

Clare, this is *another* good idea. I need the big red handle but only because of the special shape of the *ends*. The middle is not needed (so to speak) and it's so weak that it bends easily.

So, your idea of cutting it in half and then welding it into a long strong pipe makes a lot of sense. I am picking up an oxyacetylene welding setup soon, so, I will keep you informed.

So far, the legs have been fine, but I didn't mention that there is a crack in the metal where it is bolted to the concrete, so, again, you are right.

I agree with you that this HF tool is crappy, but, for the price of the tool plus a bit of welding, it can be made more robust.

Clare - I totally agree with you. The HF tool is crappy but it can be shored up where it is weak. Then it will work for most car tires. Which is good enough since it is only going to be used once a year anyway.

I am never afraid to ask a question. If I wanted to, I could write up a tutoral that *looks* like I knew everything ahead of time - but I write things as they happen.

I'm not afraid of looking dumb because I am intelligent (very) so I don't worry like most people do about looking dumb.

I often ask simple questions. I even ask for directions. :)

This is a fair enough piece of advice. Thanks for your help and advice for how to shore up the crappy harbor freight manual tire changer.