Ot tire question.

Well, I ponied up for Michelin LTs for my Ranger for the summer, and Hakkepellittas for winter, and the high end UniRoyal TigerPaw Tourings for summer on the Taurus.

The snows on the Taurus are Chinese Sailuns. I bought them used and cheap, mounted and ballanced on alloy rims to fit.(less than 2000km on them - $150 for the set) I've had no complaints

My brother sells a lot of them and swears by them. Don't put many miles on the Taurus inthe winter - it's a 2002 and just turned

115000km.

As for the Tiger Paws - there are 2 different TigerPaw Tourings and they are night and day. The T rated tires are JUNK. The H rated are real tires.

The T rated were OEM on the car - were replaced before I bought it at

53000km and they were shot by 70,000. They were thumping long before then. I replaced them with Ts again - then pulled them off and put on the H raterd tires and am happy with them.

For the last 5 vehicles, and on the Ranger untill I put on the oversized brakes and the 15 inchers didn't fit anymore, I used DunlopGraspics for the winter and I was VERY satisfied. (2 aerostars, TranSport, PT Cruiser, and Mystique, plus my Daughter's Neon and Civic)

My opinion on tread life is I'd rather have a bit lower treadlife and good traction and carcass life - than have tread that lasts a WEE bit longer but the tire goes to crap with half of the tread left.

And my experience is my H rated tires give me good tread life and the tire lasts untill the tread is worn.

When the belts go wonky on a T rated tire the tread wears unevenly so you don't get the use out of the whole tread anyway.

Cheap tires can get expensive in a hurry.

Reply to
Clare Snyder
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No, his "requirements" are Bullshit.

It's a Nissan Xterra.

By default the ride is like a buckboard - and the handling not much better.

He's a "poser" - just looking for "looks"

A LT tire is built and rated for a vehicle with a high center of gravity. Therefore the stiffer sidewalls - and the reduced load rating for P rated tires. The LT truck handles the load combined with a higher "sway" component. The P rated tire with a given load can get pretty squirrely on a high CG vehicle.

Because, as stated above, 900 pounds per tire on a tall vehicle will get sqirrely in a crosswind, or on a curve with uneven pavement - while the LT with 1000 pounds on it will hold straight and steady.

The fact it is rated for more weight on a truck means it HAS to be sturdier.

Darn right there is.

Not guessing. I spent a LOT of years in "the business"

But if he drives his Xterra like most posers drive their SUVs putting LTs on it will be money wellspent - whether he realizes it or not.

ANd the OE spec of an XTerra is LT tires.

Many reputable tire shops will not mount a P rated tire on an LT rim

- or ANY trailer rim.

Trailers require either a T rated or an LT rated tire for the same reasons - a P rated tire will allow the trailer to "wag" -and when it wags the sidewalls can't take the load, and the trailer tire lets go, putting the trailer into a dangerous situation/position/motion.

ANd my advice pased on years in the automotive service business as well as years of competitive driving.

Cheap tires (sub-standard for the application) get expensive REAL FAST.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

dpb wrote in :

Thanks for that where I never thought about LT versus P until today so I have a lot to learn. But I did read the part that the load range was 9% different between the P and LT.

Is this how it works (using simple numbers)? Say Load Range 100 means 1000 pounds in an LT but only 900 pounds in a P. Say Load Range 110 means 1100 pounds in an LT but only 1000 pounds in a P.

Let's say the manufacturer of a 3,000 pound truck specifies a maximum load of 1000 pounds per corner.

Isn't that simply a load range of 100 for LT and 110 for the P?

An interesting sentence was this one: "Given the increasing consumer preference for using light trucks for personal transportation purposes, NHTSA is, for the first time, requiring light trucks to have a specified tire reserve, the same as for passenger cars, under normal loading conditions."

--> What is a tire reserve?

Also: "The agency is also extending the tire performance requirements for passenger car tires to LT tires (load range C, D, and E) used on light trucks."

"Instead of replacing the current bead unseating test with a proposal based on a Toyota test, the agency is retaining the bead unseating test and extending it to LT tires."

--> Um, so LT used to be less regulated than P, it seems?

An interesting section was this one: "Examining tire problems in the NASS-CDS from 1992 to 1999 by types of light trucks and vehicle size indicates that LT tires used on light trucks exhibited more problems than P-metric tires. The data indicate that the average percentage of light trucks in the NASS-CDS having a LT tire problem is 0.84, while the average percent of light trucks having a P-metric tire problem is 0.47 percent.

These larger pickups and vans, however, carry heavier loads and may be more frequently overloaded than lighter trucks. In addition, these heavier vehicles are often used at construction sites and may be more apt to encounter nail punctures and experience flat tires.

Thus, there may be usage issues that increase the percentage of tire problems for these larger trucks, rather than exclusively a qualitative difference between P-metric and LT tires."

--> Well, that said nothing useful, other than LT have more problems but at the same time, LT is used harder.

One worrying statistic was that the LT tires failed a *lot* of tests! "For high speed testing... all 15 P-metric tires completed the test without failure. For LT tires, 1 of 5 tires tested failed the high-speed test."

But failing speed (speed is temperature) tests goes both ways: "Testing to these same conditions during Winter 2002 with 40 P-metric & 20 LT tires resulted in failures in 2 P-metric tires & 0 LT tires."

This is a good observation that the consumer articles don't mention any "mandatory" difference between LT and P tires other than the load range of X applies to "Y pounds for LT" but "Y minus 9%ofY pounds for P".

Of course, we all _guess_ that the LT is a "sturdier" tire, but I didn't see anything in those articles that guaranteed that LT tires are sturdier.

I think, based on the URL you provided, that LT tires were essentially "unregulated" but now they're being regulated, which makes them more like P tires, which makes the difference between them even *less* than I had originally thought.

Or so it seems?????????

It's a good point for us to figure out what *requirements* are there for LT tires versus a P tire of the same size.

Reply to
Erholt Rhein

Clare Snyder wrote in :

OK. I won't argue with that, as I don't buy my tires by "looks" and "price" only, where looks, for my tires, is meaningless and price is just one of the many variables.

Forgetting the OP's exact question, what matters to the OP and to the rest of us is a clear understanding of what is the "real" (not bullshit, but real) difference between an LT and P tire of the same size and load range number.

Assuming two tires, one is LT and one is P, but both have stamped on their sidewall the same size and load range number, what's the difference between them?

For example, if all we knew was the set of numbers the OP provided, what can we say is different about these two tires?

*P 265/75R16 with a load range designation of 123 (& speed rating R)* *LT 265/75R16 with a load range designation of 123 (& speed rating R)*

What can we say is different about those two tires that is not just us guessing?

Fair response.

I agree that "looks" is the last thing I would care about when buying tires but I was just keying off the OP's original question when I looked up what was different about a P and LT tire.

I really am confused because it seems LT tires weren't regulated as much before and now are more regulated according to the URL that dpb posted.

That means there is even less difference between P and LT than before.

I know we all assume that LT is built sturdier but I didn't see anything yet in the spec that says LT has to be sturdier, by law. Did you? (I could have missed it.)

Does it say that somewhere in a spec for LT tires. Or is that just a guess?

BTW, I would guess the same thing since the articles I read said that LT tires are often beefier but I'm looking for something that isn't just a guess.

What makes an LT tire an LT tire other than the letters on the sidewall?

Why not just state something like this then when the manufacturer specifies what tires you should buy? "Use a load range of 100 for LT tires, and 110 for P tires"

Or this, which is more direct: "Use a tire rated for 1000 pounds per corner" "If that is a P tire, that means a load range of 110". "If that is a LT tire, that means a load range of 100".

Why make the consumer do the math?

Ah! I didn't know an LT rim is different than a P rim! None of the articles I read said that!

If an LT rim is different than a P rim, that could make a big difference!

Price is meaningless since you can get the same thing at ten different places at ten different prices, from free to ten times the cheapest, depending on who wants to sell it to you.

What matters is what is actually different about an LT tire and a P tire.

If the rim is different, that could be a big factor. If the standards are different, that could be a big factor (although it seemed that LT standards were lax compared to P standards from the article that dpb gave us).

I'm curious to learn more about what makes an LT tire an LT tire and not a P tire that is "real" and not just a guess.

Reply to
Erholt Rhein

dpb wrote in :

You bring up a good point which I have to figure out in my head because you can specify the load range handling capacity of a tire by various methods.

Mostly I'm used to thinking of things from the perpsective of the max loading of the vehicle. Say a vehicle is 3000 pounds (for easy numbers) and say its maximum load is 1000 pounds, so that makes for a vehicle whose max weight will be 4000 pounds loaded.

That means the tires need to handle 1000 pounds each, where you want a safety margin so you add whatever, let's say 25%, so that means you want tires that can handle at least 1250 pounds safely.

If the P load range table looks like this: 1000 pounds = load range 100 1250 pounds = load range 200 1500 pounds = load range 300 Then, what does the LT load range table look like?

Is it the same?

Or is it about 10% higher? 1000 pounds = load range 90 1250 pounds = load range 190 1500 pounds = load range 290

I'm confused. I admit it. The P and LT load ranges seem to use different tables. But if they did use different tables, then all that matters is the weight.

Reply to
Erholt Rhein

The rim for a light truck vs forsenger car. Rim iks not NECESSARILY different - but the application is.

You buy tires for your Altima or your XTerra. Or your travel trailer.

The rims MAY be the same - they might not. I'm talking application.

The rims from my Ranger will fit an Aerostar, or a 61 Rambler, or a 75 Dart - or a Crown Vic, or even a Honda Civic - same bolt pattern.

Note I did NOT say "low priced" - I said "cheap". There is a BIG difference.

ANd if you "cheap-out" by putting (less expensive) P tires on instead of LT tires you are putting "cheap tires" on the vehicle, regardless what you paid for them.

take a look here:

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and:

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and from NITTO:

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Reply to
Clare Snyder

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...

Hey, it's ragamuffins new nym, same stupidity.

Reply to
Tekkie®

Erholt Rhein posted for all of us...

You never have been... Hows that light switch design coming?

But YOU like to think so. So admit you gave out advice that was wrong and potentially hurt someone.

Reply to
Tekkie®

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...

You hit the nail on the head on the OP. Let ragamuffin mislead him and the OP will pay in one respect or another, hope the OP doesn't get hurt or ....

Reply to
Tekkie®

I enjoy the comments. Since i am not load weary either will do. It is about the look. The lt i see looks awesome but i have yet to see a P. No need to be a dick in this conversation.

Reply to
Thomas

Same injunear that was trying to buy brake pads? Balance his own tires? Buy tire repair chemicals?

Figures.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Thomas posted for all of us...

You are the dick, buying a product your life and that of your family and others depends on by 'looks'. Also if you did ANY prior research (which you obviously didn't) you would know ragamuffin. You are a hit & run dick. You want an answer for your predetermined opinion. You will never be back here again to help anyone else; even if you could...

WTF does 'load weary' mean?

Reply to
Tekkie®

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...

Yup, in the final analysis I think ragamuffin is his new name...

Reply to
Tekkie®

Notice it's Tekkie being the dick. And then notice it's Tekkie calling everyone else a dick.

Classic.

Tekkie is obviously a classic troll.

Reply to
Bob J Jones

Likely something close to the opposite of "brain dead" - - -

Reply to
Clare Snyder

I'm out of this thread.

Into the bucket.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Bob J Jones posted for all of us...

e:

I call them as I see them. You qualify.

Reply to
Tekkie®

Spare me. Both the passenger and light truck tire are safe tires.

Reply to
Thomas

Run away techie. You are what you are.

Reply to
Thomas

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