OT: Shingles Vaccine

[T]

You are absolutely correct. And "guessing" at the effectiveness of the vaccines based on marketing research is anecdotal at best

[T]

I have had colds that almost killed me. They were definitely not the flu.

[T]

And getting stuck in traffic is what you tell your boss when you sleep in

[T]

I did not see that link. Would you mind resending it?

[angelicapaganelli]

Thanks. I was too lazy to scroll back and find it.

Cindy Hamilton

[angelicapaganelli]

That's still not a statistically significant random sampling. They all have YOU in common.

Cindy Hamilton

[trader_4]

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 4:26:55 AM UTC-5, T wrote:

The lie repeated. I gave you the link to the CDC yesterday, that shows a page full of studies that back up the effectiveness. You eschew scientific studies and instead rely on some anecdotal BS and I suspect that what you claim there is yet more BS and lies.

References for the studies listed above can be found in the information below. Also, see the Why Get a Flu Vaccine[237 KB, 2 pages] fact sheet.

Arriola C, Garg S, Anderson EJ, et al. Influenza vaccination modifies disease severity among community-dwelling adults hospitalized with influenza. Clin Infect Dis. 2017; 65(8):1289-1297. doi: 10.1093/cid/cix468. Belshe RB, Mendelman PM, Treanor, et al. The efficacy of live attenuated, cold-adapted, trivalent, intranasal influenza virus vaccine in children. N Engl J Med. 1998; 338(20):1405-12. Benowitz I, Esposito DB, Gracey KD, et al. Influenza vaccine given to pregnant women reduces hospitalization due to influenza in their infants. Clin Infect Dis. 2010; 51(12):1355-61. Ciszewski A, Bilinska ZT, Brydak LB, et al. Influenza vaccination in secondary prevention from coronary ischaemic events in coronary artery disease: FLUCAD study. Eur Heart J. 2008 Jun; 29(11):1350-8. Colquhoun AJ, Nicholson KG , Botha JL, Raymond NT. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine in reducing hospital admissions in people with diabetes. Epidemiol Infect. 1997; 119(3):335-41. Ferdinands JM, Olsho LEW, Agan AA, et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine against life-threatening RT-PCR-confirmed influenza illness in US children, 2010-2012. J Infect Dis. 2014; 210(5):674-683. Havers FP, Sokolow L, Shay DK, Farley MM, et al. Case-control study of vaccine effectiveness in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza hospitalizations in older adults, United States, 2010-2011. Clin Infect Dis. 2016; 63(4). Madhi SA, Cutland CL, Kuwanda L, et al. Influenza vaccination of pregnant women and protection of their infants. N Eng J Med. 2014; 371(10):1918-31. Nichol KL, Baken L, Nelson A. Relation between influenza vaccination and outpatient visits, hospitalization, and mortality in elderly persons with chronic lung disease. Annals of Internal Medicine 1999;130:397–403. Phrommintikul A, Kuanprasert S, Wongcharoen W,et al. Influenza vaccination reduces cardiovascular events in patients with acute coronary syndrome. Eur Heart J. 2011; 32(14):1730-5. Rondy M, El Omeiri N, Thompason MG et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccines in preventing severe influenza illness among adults: A systematic review and meta-analysis of test-negative case-control studies. J. Infect. 2017; 75(5):381-394. doi: 10.1016/j.jinf.2017.09.010. Steinhoff MC, Katz J, Englund JA et al. Year-round influenza immunization during pregnancy in Nepal: a phase 4, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. 2017; 17(9): 981-989. DOI:

Talbot HK, Griffin, MR, Chen Q, et al. Effectiveness of seasonal vaccine in preventing confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations in community dwelling older adults. J. Infect Dis 2011; 203:500-8. Talbot HK, Zhu Y, Chen Q, et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine for preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza hospitalizations in adults, 2011-2012 influenza season. Clin Infect Dis. 2013; 56(12): 1774-7. Tapia MD, Sow SO, Boubou T, et al. Maternal immunisation with trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine for prevention of influenza in infants in Mali: a prospective, active-controlled, observer blind, randomised phase 4 trial. Lancet Infect Dis. 2016; 3099(16):30054-8. Thompson MG, Kwong JC, Regan AK, et al. Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing influenza-associated hospitalizations during pregnancy: a multi-country retrospective test negative design study, 2010-2016. CID. 2018; ciy737, Thompson MG, Pierse N, Sue Huang Q et al. Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing influenza-associated intensive care admissions and attenuating severe disease among adults in New Zealand 2012-2015. Vaccine. 2018; 36(39):5916-5925. DOI: Thompson MG, Li DK, Shifflet P, et al. Effectiveness of seasonal trivalent influenza vaccine for preventing influenza virus illness among pregnant women: a population-based case-control study during the 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 influenza seasons. Clin Infect Dis. 2014; 58(4):449-57. Udell JA, Zawi R, Bhatt DL, et al. Association between influenza vaccination and cardiovascular outcomes in high-risk patients: a meta-analysis. JAMA. 2013; 310(16): 1711-20. Zaman K, Roy E, Arifeen SE, et al. Effectiveness of maternal influenza immunization in mothers and infants. N Engl J Med. 2008; 359(15):1555-1564. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa0708630.

[trader_4]

Bingo. And he's like Trump. He only sees and hears that which conforms to his preconceived and already formed opinions. All else is rejected, ignored, blocked. It's "fake news". They wind up drinking their own bath water and really believe it's the truth, at least in some cases. A good example of that was Trump the other day claiming that people who live near the southern border want his wall. To prove it, he said "did you see all the people at my rally in El Paso when I asked them"? Trump thinks that's sound polling and that Gallup is fake.

[rbowman]

Reposted for T who was snoozing at the time...

[T]

Good hunting! I look for it and found everything but that. Thank you.

My memory was the 85% of diagnosed flue with the common cold.

[Scott Lurndal]

A bald assertion that you haven't supported with any actual, you know, evidence.

[T]

Scott,

If you want to believe the vaccine actually works, just breath the air around someone that has had the shot. It is communicable. That way you avoid mainlining mercury (thimerosal) into your system.

-T

[trader_4]

Who is this "they"? We were talking about STUDIES that show the flu vaccine is effective. Those are not pulling it out of their ear. This is so typical of your style. Confronted with facts that show you're a liar spreading BS, now you try to conflate everything to try to slip away. Cindy knows the difference between a valid study and anecdotal reporting. And you are the one that resorted to anecdotal reporting, as if that's meaningful. Given what we see here, it's clear what likely happens with your data, you selectively record what agrees with your whacko opinions and force fit or ignore what data doesn't. A person tells you that they got the flu shot, but they got the flu anyway. You record that as a failure of the vaccine or better yet, that the vaccine actually caused them to get the flu. Self reporting that they had the flu is taken as positive proof they had the flu, when they could have just had the common cold. Another person says I didn't get the shot, but I was sick, you probably record that one as a common cold, not the flu, so it fits your agenda.

[trader_4]

The amazing, pig ignorant lie repeated. You should apply to be part of Trump's WH communications team.

If you want to avoid thimerosal, the single dose vaccines, including the nasal vaccine, don't have it.

[T]

Damn! You caught me!

Why am I writing you? You kids get off my lawn!! Is Sparky still in the Navy? Is Teddy still president? Damn I hate when this happens. I have a lawn?

[T]

Lack of evidence all the way around. In marketing, nothing is as it seems.

[Scott Lurndal]

Actually, you haven't shown that there is a lack of evidence.

All you've shown is that you don't have any evidence of a lack of evidence.

[T]

Actually, I have pointed out that you need to look at how they are coming up with their numbers. Right out of their ears. It will be another 6 months at least till they come up with actual numbers. The numbers you are seeing are marketing.

All they can report now is reported cases. What type of flu requires DNS testing. And they have to separate misdiagnosed flues apart from the real stuff.

This is how the CDC DNA tests the flue virus:

it a quick glance. Ask yourself how in the world they could accomplish this is a few months? In marketing, nothing is as it seems.

Enjoy your mainlined mercury.

[trader_4]

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 5:17:43 PM UTC-5, T wrote:

The lie repeated.

*References for the studies listed above can be found in the information below. Also, see the Why Get a Flu Vaccine[237 KB, 2 pages] fact sheet.

Arriola C, Garg S, Anderson EJ, et al. Influenza vaccination modifies disease severity among community-dwelling adults hospitalized with influenza. Clin Infect Dis. 2017; 65(8):1289-1297. doi: 10.1093/cid/cix468. Belshe RB, Mendelman PM, Treanor, et al. The efficacy of live attenuated, cold-adapted, trivalent, intranasal influenza virus vaccine in children. N Engl J Med. 1998; 338(20):1405-12. Benowitz I, Esposito DB, Gracey KD, et al. Influenza vaccine given to pregnant women reduces hospitalization due to influenza in their infants. Clin Infect Dis. 2010; 51(12):1355-61. Ciszewski A, Bilinska ZT, Brydak LB, et al. Influenza vaccination in secondary prevention from coronary ischaemic events in coronary artery disease: FLUCAD study. Eur Heart J. 2008 Jun; 29(11):1350-8. Colquhoun AJ, Nicholson KG , Botha JL, Raymond NT. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine in reducing hospital admissions in people with diabetes. Epidemiol Infect. 1997; 119(3):335-41. Ferdinands JM, Olsho LEW, Agan AA, et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine against life-threatening RT-PCR-confirmed influenza illness in US children, 2010-2012. J Infect Dis. 2014; 210(5):674-683. Havers FP, Sokolow L, Shay DK, Farley MM, et al. Case-control study of vaccine effectiveness in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza hospitalizations in older adults, United States, 2010-2011. Clin Infect Dis. 2016; 63(4). Madhi SA, Cutland CL, Kuwanda L, et al. Influenza vaccination of pregnant women and protection of their infants. N Eng J Med. 2014; 371(10):1918-31. Nichol KL, Baken L, Nelson A. Relation between influenza vaccination and outpatient visits, hospitalization, and mortality in elderly persons with chronic lung disease. Annals of Internal Medicine 1999;130:397–403. Phrommintikul A, Kuanprasert S, Wongcharoen W,et al. Influenza vaccination reduces cardiovascular events in patients with acute coronary syndrome. Eur Heart J. 2011; 32(14):1730-5. Rondy M, El Omeiri N, Thompason MG et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccines in preventing severe influenza illness among adults: A systematic review and meta-analysis of test-negative case-control studies. J. Infect. 2017; 75(5):381-394. doi: 10.1016/j.jinf.2017.09.010. Steinhoff MC, Katz J, Englund JA et al. Year-round influenza immunization during pregnancy in Nepal: a phase 4, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. 2017; 17(9): 981-989. DOI:

Talbot HK, Griffin, MR, Chen Q, et al. Effectiveness of seasonal vaccine in preventing confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations in community dwelling older adults. J. Infect Dis 2011; 203:500-8. Talbot HK, Zhu Y, Chen Q, et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine for preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza hospitalizations in adults, 2011-2012 influenza season. Clin Infect Dis. 2013; 56(12): 1774-7. Tapia MD, Sow SO, Boubou T, et al. Maternal immunisation with trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine for prevention of influenza in infants in Mali: a prospective, active-controlled, observer blind, randomised phase 4 trial. Lancet Infect Dis. 2016; 3099(16):30054-8. Thompson MG, Kwong JC, Regan AK, et al. Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing influenza-associated hospitalizations during pregnancy: a multi-country retrospective test negative design study, 2010-2016. CID. 2018; ciy737, Thompson MG, Pierse N, Sue Huang Q et al. Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing influenza-associated intensive care admissions and attenuating severe disease among adults in New Zealand 2012-2015. Vaccine. 2018; 36(39):5916-5925. DOI: Thompson MG, Li DK, Shifflet P, et al. Effectiveness of seasonal trivalent influenza vaccine for preventing influenza virus illness among pregnant women: a population-based case-control study during the 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 influenza seasons. Clin Infect Dis. 2014; 58(4):449-57. Udell JA, Zawi R, Bhatt DL, et al. Association between influenza vaccination and cardiovascular outcomes in high-risk patients: a meta-analysis. JAMA. 2013; 310(16): 1711-20. Zaman K, Roy E, Arifeen SE, et al. Effectiveness of maternal influenza immunization in mothers and infants. N Engl J Med. 2008; 359(15):1555-1564. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa0708630.

Sure, we don't know how effective the flu virus is any given year until some number of months of flu results are in. So what? We do have studies and numbers for it's effectiveness for years past and will have numbers for this year, then next year, etc. All rely on the results of studies, like those cited above that show it's typically

40% to 60% effective. I've never heard of a vaccine maker or health authority like CDC claim anything different.

PS: It doesn't cause the flu or spread the flu either.

Wow, no shit Sherlock.

What type of flu

From the link YOU just provided:

"Over the past five years, CDC has been using “Next Generation Sequencing (NGS)” methodologies, which have greatly expanded the amount of information and detail that sequencing analysis can provide. Unlike Sanger sequencing, NGS uses advanced molecular detection (AMD) to identify gene sequences from each virus in a sample. Therefore, NGS reveals the genetic variations among many different influenza virus particles in a single sample, and these methods also reveal the entire coding region of the genomes. "

Ok, so what's NGS and how long does it take?

"Next generation sequencing (NGS), massively parallel or deep sequencing are related terms that describe a DNA sequencing technology which has revolutionised genomic research. Using NGS an entire human genome can be sequenced within a single day. "

Any other lies and BS you want smashed, just let me know.