OT: Shingles Vaccine

[Rod Speed]

Its not a live virus, its an attenuated live virus.

Nope.

Nothing they can do about it.

[Rod Speed]

That’s bullshit too.

Its nothing like that black and white.

Bullshit.

[Rod Speed]

Wrong.

If that’s what they said, and I bet it wasn’t, that was a steaming turd of a doco that didn’t have a f****ng clue.

That’s a pig ignorant lie.

Your dementia is your problem.

Not all flu comes from china and you mangled how it comes from china when it does too. And china doesn’t just have ducks and pigs either.

Yes, but quite a bit of the time the guess turns out to be accurate.

Bet they didn’t say that either.

BULLSHIT.

And there isnt just one virus strain in the flu shot either.

[Rod Speed]

Utterly mangled all over again. Most of those I know do get flu shots and none of the have ever given me the flu.

[Rod Speed]

That utterly mangles the real story,

Not with the non fatal infections you don’t.

Its much more complicated than that too.

Wrong, again.

Corse there is when the vaccination stops plenty getting the flu.

The real difference is that polio and smallpox mutate much more slowly so vaccination is much more effective.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that’s saying something.

There is no artificially induced flu epidemic.

BULLSHIT.

There isnt just one polio vaccine.

Even more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

Correct.

[rbowman]

If you want to talk about scientific validity...

Some of their methodology is questionable and at times they are pulling numbers out of their asses.

[invalid unparseable]

I remember the big shortage year as only having one supplier. Liability from law suits keep manufacturers away. It was not the same in Europe where if you suffered a disclosed side effect, you could not sue.

[invalid unparseable]

People need understand that toxicity is dose related. I once had a Canadian government official tell me that if the water in the glass he was drinking contained one atom of a chlorinated compound he did not want to drink it. I did not take the time to educate him about Avogadro's number.

[trader_4]

What the hell is a "DES" vaccination? I agree that there has been a lot of credible research into a possible link between childhood vaccinations and autism and all have come up negative. The English doctor that published the original paper that made that claim was exposed as a fraud, the paper was withdrawn and the doctor lost his license. Mr. T gets his "facts" and news from the same sources Trump does.

[trader_4]

No, Frank has it right, you're the liar:

"But this year's shot offers 47 percent protection against all circulating strains, according to researchers at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In other words, getting the current vaccine could nearly cut in half your odds of acquiring a severe case of the flu.

The news was even better for vaccinated kids."

"For children aged 6 months to 17 years, overall vaccine effectiveness was 61 percent," the CDC team reported.

That's based on data up to Feb. 2 on nearly 3,300 children and adults enrolled in the U.S. Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network, said investigators led by Dr. Joshua Doyle of the CDC's Influenza Division.

The last time you listened to any real news, any real science, sadly was a very long time ago, if ever. You're just like Trump, full of BS, full of lies, never admit you get anything wrong and just keep doubling down.

[trader_4]

That's an incredible one coming from a leading trumpet. The part of the govt that lies the most today is clearly Trump. He lies almost daily about just about anything and everything.

[trader_4]

ROFL

That's a new one. McGovern helped murder 20 mil Asians? You're just like your hero Trump, your knowledge has no limits.

[trader_4]

+1

My experience is the opposite of what Mr. T claims too. Decades ago, doctors handed out antibiotic far more freely than today. Now they are more careful and selective, because we know that creating more antibiotic resistant bugs is not a good thing. Funny how the guy who eschews doctors and modern medicine, claims to know so much about it.

[trader_4]

No, it's not. Having about a quarter of the population that took the shot immune means there is a huge decrease in the numbers of people infected. Less people infected means it will spread to less people that did not get the shot or who took the shot but were not protected.

Your

BS

Those are different, in that they don't mutate every year so that the vaccine has a much higher efficacy rate. With those diseases, we are not coming up with a new vaccine each year.

If that were true, there would be hoards of dead people all over the planet. Where do you get your facts and news from? Same places as Trump, no doubt.

[George]

As fast as our altruistic president drains the swamp, the dim-bulb democrat voters elect new liars.

[Peter]

On 2/15/2019 4:35 PM, T wrote:

Everything you write includes more and more inaccurate or downright false information. My comment not to confuse herd immunity with residual immunity was in response to your statement that flu shots provided no lasting protection for future flu seasons and conflated that inaccurate statement with your inaccurate statement that herd immunity was a hoax. Herd immunity refers to current immunologic resistance by a population against infection by a specific pathogen due to the lowered incidence of infection in that immunized population versus an non-immunized population. It is an epidemiological, statistically proven real phenomenon, as much as you prefer to deny it. Residual immunity refers to the duration of protection afforded to an individual after either an immunization or an infection by a pathogen. It varies from pathogen to pathogen, vaccine to vaccine, and individual to individual. There is residual, although substantially reduced protection afforded by flu vaccines (and by a clinical case of the flu) in later years if the individual is exposed to the same or extremely similar strain of that pathogen. Although the number of flu virus strains, their geographic distribution, and serotype of specific strains of flue virus vary from year to year, some strains remain prevalent for several years before either mutating or being supplanted by different strains. Usually, after a number of years, variants of previously prevalent strains once again become prevalent.

You seem to need to see everything as black or white, either/or. Flu vaccines do not suffer from "always" gets the virus wrong". You then go on to conflate residual immunity against the flu with residual immunity against the common cold. The "common cold" is caused by many hundreds if not thousands of different classes and strains of viruses and unfortunately, infection with any of them usually provides no residual immunity against infection with a different cold pathogen. There are so many cold pathogens that it is likely that many people are never infected twice in their lifetime with the same one.

Public health is a complicated field and is easily misunderstood (and mischaracterized) by most people who have not studied it. Learn more from reputable sources before continuing to demonstrate your ignorance.

[trader_4]

Your failure at basic math and logic is stunning. You eschew science for coffee room chit chat. Ok, so some people say they got the flu shot, but that they got sick anyway. Did they actually say that they had the flu or just that they got sick? Were they diagnosed as having the flu by a doctor who did a lab test for the flu? How do you or they know that the actually had the flu and not just a bad cold? And then we have the fact that the flu vaccine is known to typically have about 50% effectiveness, so sure, a lot of people who have the vaccination will still get the flu.

Somehow you translate the fact that some people say they were vaccinated but got sick anyway into the vaccine being totally ineffective. If you're old, have pre-existing conditions like heart disease or emphysema, and you take the vaccine and have a 50% chance of it being effective, it could save your life.

Actually you're the fraud.

He and others here have, you ignore it.

[Peter]

Your discussion strategy seems to be that when you are shown to be demonstratively wrong, you change the subject. It's the "yeah, but what about...." strategy. Above, you conflate clinical diagnosis (what the clinician believes after doing a history and physical exam) with laboratory confirmed diagnosis. Of course differential diagnosis is an exercise in probabilistic guestimating ("when you hear hoofbeats think of horses, not zebras").

"Stomach Flu" happens to be a common layman's term for any digestive upset in many parts of the U.S. No one should claim that it is a medically accurate diagnosis. I personally do not know a single mainstream physician (what you pejoratively call "allopath") who does NOT do a throat culture before prescribing antibiotics for a sore throat, and no mainstream physician today will prescribe antibiotics for an uncomplicated "cold" if that is his/her working diagnosis. Your contempt for reality continues to astound!

I'm through wasting my time trying to help you understand your limitations in how to think critically. You're obstinate instigations put you firmly in the category of troll. Good day.

[rbowman]

Maybe he was a homeopath. I knew very little about homeopathy but the basic premise seemed like it might have some merit. Then I found out about 'dilutions'.

[T]

Hi Rod,

I just added you new eMail address to my wackos list. Thank you for help me update it.

-T