OT: Shingles Vaccine

[T]

Every so often you come across an allopath that is a gem.

Best cold remedy ever created:

[2987fr]

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

[T]

And you like to twist my words into something you can attack too.

Me either.

Allopaths is not a pejorative. It is an accurate description of a chemical doctor. You can use it as a pejorative if you like. I have had my own name used as an insult. You are trying to pick another fight.

Holy Shit Peter! When was the last time you went to an allopath and had them do a culture? I have specifically asked for them and got turned down. The last time an allopath did a culture on me I was a very small child.

Holy Shit Again Peter! They it do all the time. How do you think we all got all those super strains that kill so many people (hospital infections)?????

One of my mates at a company I use to work for's wife was an allopath. She told us they gave out antibiotics for viruses even though they knew they did not work. It is an excuse for being L-A-Z-Y. Just how hard is it print out instructions on how to treat a cold and a recipe for chicken soup? Apparently you don't have to talk to the customer as much if it is just a pill.

Ask the good Comrade doctor allopath. This is the ONLY thing the two of us agree on.

And yes, hospital infections are now the fourth leading killer: killed both my in-laws. Yes, a lot of allopaths do deserve contempt. Cindy sounds like she has a keeper. I know a good one too.

Now you are just being insulting.

Let me tell you again how the flue shot is developed. First it

*IS NOT* from folks around the world noticing flu infections in the general public. When that happens IT IS TOO LATE to develop a vaccine.

The Chinese mix their duck and pigs. First the strain starts in ducks. Then it must modify itself enough to jump to the pigs, which have a similar immune system to humans. Then it must modify enough again to jump to humans. The researchers test the pigs and make an educated guess which ones will jump to humans. This is what the flu shot is based on.

If the one they choose, does not eventually modify itself enough, it will only infect the pigs. And guess what? NO RESIDUAL IMMUNITY for humans as it doesn't infect humans, or only a very tiny bit.

If the virus does eventually over the years alter itself enough, then it will show up again as something totally different and the previous shot will also have no effect. Again, NO RESIDUAL IMMUNITY. And the wrong virus, so no herd immunity either.

The flu shot is an educated guess. It has not been correct in my memory.

The researcher how develop the flu shot have the best of intentions and I highly respect them for their technology and their honesty.

And every year those that make money off the flu shot will tell you they got it right this years and, oops, yes, last years did not work after all. Year after year after year.

[Bob Bubba]

According to the official flu map, the flu scale needle is pegged at "Widespread". Apparently the vaccines ain't workin' so good.

[angelicapaganelli]

It's actually working fairly well. If more than about 40% of people had got the vaccine, we'd see less flu.

Cindy Hamilton

[trader_4]

Try starting with the fact that less than half the population chooses to get the flu vaccine. Then understand that the flu vaccine is only about

50% effective. And finish with the fact that the flu can still be widespread, but with the vaccine millions fewer get it and fewer die, it's still a good result.

[George]

So if I bought a gun that only fires half the time the trigger is pulled, would you consider that "workin' good"?

[T]

Thank you. It is really easy to add this guy to the killfile

[T]

Hi Cindy,

That is marketing. It does not work any better than it did last year which was that it did not.The numbers they quote are not research based. It is very difficult to get actual numbers, so these are just pulled out of their ears. Remember that in marketing nothing is as it seems.

Remember last year. They announced that they nailed it. Then as time goes on, the numbers go down and down. They will say the same thing next year. Well, until a class action suit shuts them down.

By the way, the consensus of folks I know that got the flu vaccine were that they also got the flu. And that those that stopped getting it have said they have not caught the flu since.

There are a lot of folks making a lot of money off this snake oil.

-T

[T]

Hi Cindy,

Speaking of marketing, the effective number they quote is the against the virus in the shot, not the virus in the wild. In marketing, nothing is as it seems.

-T

[angelicapaganelli]

I think you nailed it, Ed.

Cindy Hamilton

[Roger Wilco]

Ya right. If either one of you bought a gun that only fired about 50% of the time you pulled the trigger, you'd be back at the retailer demanding a refund.

[trader_4]

Please give us a cite for that where the drug manufacturers or the CDC said that they "nailed it".

Then as time

Sure, I believe that as much as I believe anything that you post here.

There are a lot of people spreading BS, lies and FUD. Like claiming that the flu vaccine is totally ineffective and that it actually gives people the flu that they then spread. Having spread that lie, your credibility is zero, but then it's been there for a long time anyway.

[trader_4]

On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 1:33:45 AM UTC-5, T wrote:

Another lie. Who is this "they" that you are referring to? It's a liar's technique, one that Trump uses. "They" said. Here's the CDC referencing studies, with the actual studies cited at the end of page:

Arriola C, Garg S, Anderson EJ, et al. Influenza vaccination modifies disease severity among community-dwelling adults hospitalized with influenza. Clin Infect Dis. 2017; 65(8):1289-1297. doi: 10.1093/cid/cix468. Belshe RB, Mendelman PM, Treanor, et al. The efficacy of live attenuated, cold-adapted, trivalent, intranasal influenza virus vaccine in children. N Engl J Med. 1998; 338(20):1405-12. Benowitz I, Esposito DB, Gracey KD, et al. Influenza vaccine given to pregnant women reduces hospitalization due to influenza in their infants. Clin Infect Dis. 2010; 51(12):1355-61. Ciszewski A, Bilinska ZT, Brydak LB, et al. Influenza vaccination in secondary prevention from coronary ischaemic events in coronary artery disease: FLUCAD study. Eur Heart J. 2008 Jun; 29(11):1350-8. Colquhoun AJ, Nicholson KG , Botha JL, Raymond NT. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine in reducing hospital admissions in people with diabetes. Epidemiol Infect. 1997; 119(3):335-41. Ferdinands JM, Olsho LEW, Agan AA, et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine against life-threatening RT-PCR-confirmed influenza illness in US children, 2010-2012. J Infect Dis. 2014; 210(5):674-683. Havers FP, Sokolow L, Shay DK, Farley MM, et al. Case-control study of vaccine effectiveness in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza hospitalizations in older adults, United States, 2010-2011. Clin Infect Dis. 2016; 63(4). Madhi SA, Cutland CL, Kuwanda L, et al. Influenza vaccination of pregnant women and protection of their infants. N Eng J Med. 2014; 371(10):1918-31. Nichol KL, Baken L, Nelson A. Relation between influenza vaccination and outpatient visits, hospitalization, and mortality in elderly persons with chronic lung disease. Annals of Internal Medicine 1999;130:397–403. Phrommintikul A, Kuanprasert S, Wongcharoen W,et al. Influenza vaccination reduces cardiovascular events in patients with acute coronary syndrome. Eur Heart J. 2011; 32(14):1730-5. Rondy M, El Omeiri N, Thompason MG et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccines in preventing severe influenza illness among adults: A systematic review and meta-analysis of test-negative case-control studies. J. Infect. 2017; 75(5):381-394. doi: 10.1016/j.jinf.2017.09.010. Steinhoff MC, Katz J, Englund JA et al. Year-round influenza immunization during pregnancy in Nepal: a phase 4, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. 2017; 17(9): 981-989. DOI:

Talbot HK, Griffin, MR, Chen Q, et al. Effectiveness of seasonal vaccine in preventing confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations in community dwelling older adults. J. Infect Dis 2011; 203:500-8. Talbot HK, Zhu Y, Chen Q, et al. Effectiveness of influenza vaccine for preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza hospitalizations in adults, 2011-2012 influenza season. Clin Infect Dis. 2013; 56(12): 1774-7. Tapia MD, Sow SO, Boubou T, et al. Maternal immunisation with trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine for prevention of influenza in infants in Mali: a prospective, active-controlled, observer blind, randomised phase 4 trial. Lancet Infect Dis. 2016; 3099(16):30054-8. Thompson MG, Kwong JC, Regan AK, et al. Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing influenza-associated hospitalizations during pregnancy: a multi-country retrospective test negative design study, 2010-2016. CID. 2018; ciy737, Thompson MG, Pierse N, Sue Huang Q et al. Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing influenza-associated intensive care admissions and attenuating severe disease among adults in New Zealand 2012-2015. Vaccine. 2018; 36(39):5916-5925. DOI: Thompson MG, Li DK, Shifflet P, et al. Effectiveness of seasonal trivalent influenza vaccine for preventing influenza virus illness among pregnant women: a population-based case-control study during the 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 influenza seasons. Clin Infect Dis. 2014; 58(4):449-57. Udell JA, Zawi R, Bhatt DL, et al. Association between influenza vaccination and cardiovascular outcomes in high-risk patients: a meta-analysis. JAMA. 2013; 310(16): 1711-20. Zaman K, Roy E, Arifeen SE, et al. Effectiveness of maternal influenza immunization in mothers and infants. N Engl J Med. 2008; 359(15):1555-1564. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa0708630.

No, you're the one that's pulling stuff out of your ears.

Provide us for a cite of this "they" saying they nailed it.

[trader_4]

+1

[Ed Pawlowski]

We certainly travel in different circles. I don't know anyone that got a flu shot that got the flu. Explain that.

[angelicapaganelli]

Anecdote does not equal data.

There was one citation that indicated about half the people who thought they had the flu actually didn't.

Cindy Hamilton

[Ed Pawlowski]

I personally know a couple of people that had the sniffles and said they had the flu. I guess you get more sympathy that way.

[rbowman]

In the study I referenced many more than half of the people seeking aid did not have influenza.

[T]

Maybe I meet a lot more people that you do? I am a computer consultant and I do do all over the place. Maybe you have friends that a genetically disposed not to get the flu?