OT. Gasoline Price

I was hearing this am that Biden was considering closing down another pipeline from Canada and when his secretary of energy was asked about gasoline supply she blamed OPEC. I know Democrats will accept this but not rational people.

I heard her blaming the oil companies in general, not just OPEC, for the price rises, she said they are not responding fast enough. This is more lies and BS. Biden is actually in the process of closing another oil pipeline from Canada. At the same time, his energy secretary is blaming the oil companies. Truth is that the lib Democrats want gas at $5 a gallon. They think that will force more people to buy electric cars and put on coats instead of heating their homes. Talk about screwing the working guy, screwing the poor, this is a classic. Biden signaled to the markets around the world where he stood when he killed the XL Pipeline. The oil companies, foreign and domestic, OPEC, futures markets all responded as expected. This is pure insanity, it's as if the Democrats want to lose it all and learned nothing from the election losses.

I think it is amusing that Biden is shutting down pipelines in the US that would benefit the US and Canada but he dropped the 2 main Trump era sanctions on Russia in May that opened the way for the Nord Stream pipeline into Europe. Putin will make billions from that. Tell me again, who is Putin's puppet?

He is intent on making us dependent again on middle east oil so we can have another war there. Wars are good business.

I agree, what Biden did there was totally wrong and I said it here when he did it. That's a key difference, I call right and wrong regardless of who it is and party, unlike some people.

Do you really believe that? If so, you're ready for Qanon. The US is currently the world's largest producer of oil and a slight net exporter, so he'd have a long, long way to go to achieve that. The Trumpets liked to try to take credit for that, like Trump did it. Truth is US crude output has been steadily rising on a pretty much linear trajectory since 2007. It's not that we're dependent on Mideast oil, it's that there is a worldwide tighter supply demand situation combined with Biden signaling to the markets that he wants higher prices by shutting down XL and now in the process of shutting down another pipelein. Oil is a fungible commodity.

I really think Biden is so addled at this point that he can't understand the total stupidity and inconsistency of what he and his administration are doing. I mean the concept of how stupid and illogical it is to be blaming the oil companies for high prices, when you shut down XL and are in the process of doing it again, is mind boggling. The good news for Republicans is that most Democrats and especially Biden, didn't get the message on election day. They think people are just mad over Covid and will soon get over it.

The main reason why we are not importing oil from OPEC is we get it from Canada. That is the oil Biden is trying to stop. We also are net exporter of petroleum products but we are still a net importer of crude oil. We just have more refining capability than other countries, not more oil. We import crude from Canada. As for whether Trump can take credit for that, we will see what happens in the next year or two. Maintaining GWs trajectory is as important as starting it. You are right. The democrats want to make oil more expensive. They think we will just print more money and give it to the people who can't afford it.

It is anything but amusing.

Biden was always soft on Russia as were most Democrats. The Trump collusion with Russia lie was started by the Clinton campaign and promulgated by the rest of her party.

Besides pipelines, Biden shut down ANWR which somebody said, true or not, has more oil than Saudi Arabia.

Which is irrelevant to your claim that Biden is intent on making the US dependent on Mideast oil to start another war. There are lots of oil producers in the world besides the Mideast and we only import a couple million barrels out of a consumption of 18 mil. And a good part of what is imported likely goes into refined products that are part of our net exporter position. In other words, we could likely do without the imports if it's just domestic consumption that has to be supported.

That appears to be the immediate agenda, but clearly he and the libs want all oil production reduced and a switch to green energy.

What happens in the next year or two is irrelevant to the fact that the reason we are the largest producer of oil in the world and a net exporter today is because US production has been steadily rising on pretty much a linear course since 2007. It continued on that line during Trump's term. It's higher prices and new drilling methods, not Trump, though the crazy Republicans would like people to believe that Trump did it.

Maintaining GWs trajectory is as

More nonsense. If Biden wants to make war, then why in the hell did he just pull out of Afghanistan? IDK where you come up with this stuff.

The right answer is 'nobody knows'. There has been one well drilled in '86 by BP and BP isn't talking. There are extrapolations from adjacent state lands and seismic data.

Oil refining is still a business that generates jobs and taxes. It also helps our balance of payments. The Canadian oil was going to be piped to the refineries on the Gulf Coast.

Welfare for the rich. The working class can't afford a Tesla nor can they put solar collectors on the roof of their apartment or even their house if they have one. The landlord has no interest in the electric bills and he is going to keep his capital investment as low as he can. People of means will go green and the rest of us will pay for it.

We are the largest producer of refined products. Try to keep it straight. Biden is reducing crude production and imports from Canada. It is going to come from somewhere that doesn't particularly like us. .

Pure Politics. After Trump started the withdrawal, with great popular support, Biden did not want to be the one to start it back up. There is no oil in Afghanistan nor are they a direct threat to Israel. That was a politically unpopular war on all fronts, started on a lie.

But the need for the US to go to war because of a loss of some jobs in the refinery business makes zero sense, far less sense that going to war because

I have it right, you're the one that's wrong again.

Country Oil production

United States 11,307,560 Russia 9,865,495 Saudi Arabia (OPEC) 9,264,921 Canada 4,201,101

I would hope that the guy pontificating on oil and war would have at least the most basic facts right.

Biden is reducing crude production and imports from Canada.

Just as wrong on that nonsense too. Biden was on record wanting to withdraw from Afghanistan for years. As far radical Bernie/AOC left as the Democrats have gone, this assertion that Biden wants to go start another war for business is one of your most ridiculous.

You sound just like a guy I worked with decades ago. He insisted the Vietnam War was over oil. BTW, in these wars you claim were for oil, can you find just one where the US got the oil, took the oil, etc? And Saudi Arabia and the other significant oil producing countries are not a threat to Israel either, with the exception of Iran and we've banned their oil.

Which war have we fought in the last 60 years that did make sense? It is the libs who say Iraq and Kuwait was over oil. Personally I think Saddam would have more than happy to sell us oil at s lower spot price.

We still import more crude than we export. That means we are still dependent on foreign oil. Biden is just making that situation worse by pushing those imports away from Canada and toward placed that bring it in on tankers from countries that don't like us as much.

His boss (the tan Bush) ramped up the war after promising to end it in

I have never said Vietnam was over oil. Vietnam was Lyndon Johnson's dick waving and lying. We were just sticking our nose in someone else's civil war. It was still good business tho. Great time to be a defense contractor.

It is about the world price of oil, not any particular barrel. Our business world depends on cheap energy. Once that oil gets to market, it is all the same for a given grade. Keeping the middle east online makes oil cheaper for everyone.

Bullshit, the biggest source of funding for Hamas is Saudi Arabia. They just have so much oil everyone pussy foots around them.

Iran doesn't seem to have much trouble selling their oil. It is like illegal drugs. The world says they are controlling it but the trade still goes on. Once that oil is regular unleaded, nobody cares.

The measure of our "dependence" with regard to foreign oil has always been about US domestic consumption, ie that the US could not survive, would be crippled, would have to reduce driving, turn off heat, if we didn't import. That is pretty much untrue today, it's not 1975 anymore. If we didn't get that extra crude, we'd just not export some refined products, which is hardly a national crisis, Exxon would still do OK.

Biden is just making that situation worse

You keep saying that, like I haven't said right from the beginning here and in other threads that what Biden is doing is stupid. But stupid does not equate to his motive being that he wants to start a war in the Mideast.

Then you Republicans wonder why people accuse you of being racists.

I didn't say that you did, just that this guy's crazy, unfounded conspiracy nonsense is just like yours. But feel free to go ahead and post it, it would fit right in.

So on the one hand you claim Biden is shutting down the Canada pipelines to start a war someday in the Mideast because that's needed to keep the price of oil low. On the other hand, that action has helped drive up the price of oil right now. And the libs clearly want HIGHER oil prices, because they want to force people away from carbon fuels to reduce global warming. Cheap oil is the last thing the libs around the world want. I'm sure your bizarre theories all makes sense to you somehow. To me it looks like the inevitable contradictions and more craziness that comes from posting unfounded, crazy claims.

Hamas is an annoyance, it's not an existential threat. So what you're telling us now is that Biden is shutting off oil from Canada, so that someday he go to war against Saudi Arabia, presumably change the regime to one that is going to stop funding what we don't like. And he;s driving up the price of oil today, so that a war in the Mideast will produce cheaper oil. That actually makes sense to you?

Figures that you'd default back to that tired old BS. If 15 of the 911 were from Britain or Somalia, would you have attacked those countries instead of Afghanistan where Al Qaeda was headquartered, where Bin Laden was, where they had trained and these terrorists and 50K others, where the attack was conceived, planned and ordered? Suppose 15 came from the US, then we should attack ourselves?

The crown prince

Now you're complaining about exactly the policy that you've advocated here how many times? You've said over and over we should not get involved in other countries affairs, let them all just do what they want. Now you call our condemnation just a feckless protest. There might have been a stronger response if we had a president other that Trump. Funny too that we didn't see you complaining here about the lack of a strong response back when it happened.

Irrelevant of course.

I hope so, I like my XOM dividends. The point is, it won't take much to change that situation. If the left keeps restricting drilling, eliminating fracking and other things that moved us off of that 1975 position, we will be right back there.

Say what? Calling Obama the tan Bush is now racist? Is it because I said he was tan or was it that I compared him to Bush?

You diverted from the main statement tho by just playing the race card. Are you denying Obama promised to end the war, then doubled down on it? Biden was right there the whole time. Find me one single quote where he went against the Obama escalation of the war.

That is certainly not what the Israelis say and we seem to be in lock step with them. Otherwise AIPAC would be all over any politician that bucked the company line.

They also did most of the actual planning in Germany. The most important training, flying the planes, was done in the US.

You also ignore where the money came from.

Are you seriously going to say the Saudis are not a major source of funding for terrorists?

There was no response that was politically possible. The world still needs Saudi oil.

Then stop acting like our sanctions mean anything.

I agree, though it will take years for that to happen and it looks more and more likely that the next president will be Republican with each passing day.

You really can't understand this either? What exactly was the point to the tan part, which is a reference to Obama's skin color? It's clearly racist.

Only because you made that racist remark.

I didn't deny or say anything about Obama, I just pointed out that your remark is racist.

As I've pointed out to you several times now, that's like focusing on some special additional training Seal Team members received for a special mission and ignoring their extensive Navy and Seal training and indoctrination that made them effective warriors. And like the Seals, the 911 team was hand picked by Bil Laden from the best that went through their training in Afghanistan.

As to where the attacks were conceived, planned and ordered, you're wrong again on that, as I've pointed out IDK how many times now:

In December 1998, the Director of Central Intelligence Counterterrorist Center reported to President Bill Clinton that al-Qaeda was preparing for attacks in the U.S., including training personnel to hijack aircraft.[15]

In late-1998 or early-1999, bin Laden summoned Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to Kandahar and gave his approval for him to proceed with a scaled back version of the "planes operation."[16][5][9] A series of meetings occurred in the spring of 1999, involving Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Osama bin Laden, and his deputy Mohammed Atef.[16] Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wanted to hit the World Trade Center, while bin Laden prioritized the White House, the U.S. Capitol, and the Pentagon because he believed that it would lead to the political collapse of the U.S. federal government.[5][9] Bin Laden recommended four individuals for the plot, including Nawaf al-Hazmi, Khalid al-Mihdhar, Walid Muhammad Salih Bin 'Attash (Khallad), and Abu Bara al-Taizi. Al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar were both Saudi citizens, which made it straightforward for them to obtain U.S. visas, unlike Khallad and al-Taizi who both were Yemeni citizens, and as such unable to get visas to the U.S easily. The two Yemenis were assigned for the Asia component of the plot. When Mohamed Atta and other members of the Hamburg cell arrived in Afghanistan, bin Laden was involved in selecting them for the plot and assigned Atta to be its leader.[17]

At the time, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed led al-Qaeda's 'military committee'.[18] He provided operational support, such as selecting targets, and helped to arrange travel for the hijackers.[16] Khalid Sheikh Mohammed explained to Fouda, "We had a large surplus of brothers willing to die as martyrs. As we studied various targets, nuclear facilities arose as a key option"...but the nuclear targets were dropped for concerns the plan would "get out of hand."[19

AFAIK, no one knows for sure exactly where the funding for 911 specifically came from, that was the conclusion of the 911 Commission, I believe.

If by Saudis, you mean citizens, sure, money is flowing to terrorists. The govt also funds schools, mosques that teach their strict, intolerant version of Islam that helps generate minds ready to become terrorists. So, what would you have done, bomb Saudi Arabia instead of the most direct target responsible for terrorism, ie Bin Laden and his camps in Afghanistan? You've advocated how many times here, to just stay out of other countries affairs, let them do what they want.

The US doesn't. Trump had to be driven for a week to even say anything.

Please show me in this thread or anywhere where I said they are effective. Good grief. The only thing I said about Iran was that of the oil producing states in the Mideast of any significance, only Iran is a threat to Israel. How you get from point A to B never ceases to amaze.

But you're wrong on this too. Iran is suffering greatly from the US sanctions.

Now mentioning Obama is "tan" is racist? Jesus you have become a democrat haven't you.

You don't have to go to Afghanistan to learn how to be a thug. Without flight training, the most they could have hoped for was to crash 3 more planes in corn fields.

Nobody wants to ADMIT where the money comes from.

I didn't say ONLY but they are the biggest direct threat according to the Israelis. (since we took Iraq out of the picture for them) Who else is developing nukes?

It isn't slowing them down much tho. Like most sanctions it only affects the poorest of their citizens. The government programs we are upset about still go on.

No, clearly something is wrong with you if you can't realize that bringing up someone's skin color in a discussion about world affairs and politics is racist. Would you say that to a black person's face? What exactly is the point to calling Obama tan, someone you clearly don't like, if it's not to point out that he's black?

Right. That's like saying you don't have to go to Navy training and Seal training to be a Seal.

Without

Right, like giving a highly trained and indoctrinated Seal some final training for a mission was needed to make that particular mission successful.

Now you're even further off course. I introduced Iran into the discussion by saying they were the only significant oil producer in the Mideast that's a threat to Israel. Now it sounds like you're implying that I said otherwise.

It's hurt them badly, but you're right, it's mostly the common folks that are feeling it and I haven't seen any evidence that it's slowed down their nuke program. You know, the nuke program that the world had under some pretty good control, with international inspections, until Trump reneged on the US deal and set them on their current path of no restrictions, full speed ahead. I would not be surprised at all if they do a test at any point now. I think some Israeli general said recently that the end of this year is the last opportunity to stop them.