I don't follow your logic at all. The vehicle IS part of the decision process. Maybe you should ask THEM why they came to the conclusion they did. If they don't say anything about what will happen to the engine if the belt fails (or say nothing will happen), continue looking until you find someone who does. Maybe they just believe that there is very little chance of it failing, which is the only way I can imagine the type of engine not figuring in.
Alternatively, we still might be "failing to communicate" and by "independent of vehicle" you really do mean that you are asking for a decision process that includes a step like: "if the vehicle has an interference engine do A, otherwise do B".
The Gates manual says 105,000 miles.I noticed after posting this, the kit also comes with a water pump. Thatanswers a dispute of a couple of earlier posters about it.
At least a dozen times in 20 years, my independent mechanic told me "You don't need to do (whatever). Save your money." Or "Do that yourself - it's crazy to pay me for it. Wait for spring when you can do it in your driveway."
DerbyDad03 wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
If he doesn't, he can join Honda's Ownerlink site:
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From there he can get the /official/ maintenance schedules. These would be /Honda's/ schedule, not the dealer's moneymaking attempts.
Right. If you keep the car even to 150K, you're spending money for the belt change /anyway/. So better to get it done before the probability of breakage increases.
That engine is an "interference" design. This means that, should the belt slip or break, there is a chance valve(s) and pistons could collide. If that happens, you're about doubling the cost of the belt change.
Smitty Two wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com:
That was indeed my point, but I expressed it badly.
To say it more clearly: If you keep the vehicle much over 110K, you've got a belt-change in there anyway, so that money /will/ get spend whether you spend it now or you spend it later. And if you spend it "later", you start to stray into belt-breakage territory, which is not wise with a Honda.
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in news:NO-dnU173aZcbITRnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I strongly advise against using aftermarket timing belts or water pumps on any Honda or Toyota. Neither has the durability of genuine OEM.
But then if all you're expecting is to get another 40-50K or so before you get rid of the car, go ahead and use aftermarket. Let the new owner deal with any early failures.
And not all the tire-store mechs are dishonest or incompetent, either. At my first job, my office was right across the street from a B.F.Goodrich store. Took my wife's car in there, after she'd gotten some outrageous repair estimates at the Firestone across the street from where *she* worked -- they wanted to replace almost the entire front end on her car, when the only real problem was worn-out lower ball joints. Changed out the LBJs myself, then took the car to Goodrich for an alignment. Told the guy at Goodrich what Firestone had told my wife; he said, quote, Aw, hell, there ain't nothin' wrong with none of that s**t!
I've made this decision with just about every possible conclusion, drive most of my cars ~150K miles, and I think it all depends on your tolerance for risk, whether you can get by without your car, and whether the car gets driven anywhere or by anyone that would make being stranded a major issue.
High tolerance for risk, can get by without car, stranding not a problem =3D Never replace it. If it goes (many never do), deal with inconvenience, expense and/or stranding at that time (factor in whether you would keep the car if it sucked a valve and whether your model would).
High tolerance for risk, can get by for a little while, stranding not too significant a problem =3D Push the schedule.
Low tolerance, need car reliably, and/or stranding a major issue =3D Do it according to schedule.
My results: 33 cars so far (took me awhile to count!), several "true American" makes, two German, two Japanese (American made), several so- called American made multinationally. Mostly bought used, four purchased new.
1 German, bought used, had valve/piston collision when the belt went at less than 100,000 miles. Sold the car as-is.
1 American, bought new, dumped me WAY out in the country, but no collateral damage. Less than 100K miles. Fixed.
1 Japanese replaced according to schedule, no further issues.
Balance =3D Belt/chain never broke while I owned the car. Of the balance, all but three were driven more than 100,000, most approached
150,000, three were driven more than 200,000 miles but not by much, one was driven almost 300,000 miles. At least six of these were from an era when a timing chain would most likely have been used, so possibly they should be removed from the equation (such as it is).
Completely understandable! I'll try to explain what I meant.
I was trying to say that the mechanics did take the vehicle type into consideration and came to the conclusion that it's OK to wait, based strictly on how long they've seen the belts last.
But from the consumer's standpoint, I don't think waiting to replace a belt at 110K if you aren't planning on keeping the vehicle to 220K makes sense. If the odds are that you'll get rid of vehicle somewhere between 110K and 180K, you'll need a belt anyway, so why put yourself at risk? And I mean any level of risk, stranded or destroyed engine. There's no need for it.
In that respect, I don't think "interference" enters into the decision, since, even if you believe the mechanic's time frame, you'd never enter the "danger zone" any way because you'd change the belt before 100K anyway.
I'm not sure if that makes any more sense, but I tried!
After they have cross-threaded the filter, stripped the drain plug, blown the crap out of the ball-joint seals with the pressure grease gun, rounded off the corners of the differential drainplug, drained the transaxle instead of the engine oil-pan and overfilled the engine by 4 quarts because of it (and left the transaxle empty), put power steering fluid in the coolant overflow, or antifreeze in the power steering (or both), you won't use the trained monkeys even for your next oil change.
I've seen all of the above, and a whole lot more!!!!
When I was service manager at the Toyota dealership in a former life, there were not many independents - and precious few chain shops that could service your Toyota for much less than our shop would do it - and we had all the right parts in stock, all the latest specifications and service bulletins, and the factory manuals and training to boot.
There was a reason we had a retention rate of over 100% - meaning we serviced MORE cars than we sold, based on 3 year numbers.
If you are driving a Chrysler and you doi NOT change the fluid, it's your funeral. Leaving the old fluid until you have a problem GUARANTEES it will fail just after you change the fluid - as does using the wrong fluid.
250,000 miles on a Chrysler automatic is NOT out of reach, or even out of the ordinary, if it is "properly" serviced.
I'd dissagree. High end aftermarket is as good as, or better than OEM in MANY cases. Just don't buy the aftermarket stuff based on price.
"If you want first quality oats, you need to be willing to pay first quality price. If you are willing to settle for oats that have already been through the horse, they DO come a bit cheaper"
I understand that. And that's true: you won't save money by waiting.
You and he both fail to understand that *that* is false: the amortized cost is the same, because the car is driven 60K miles and thus the cost is amortized over 60K miles, regardless of when the belt is purchased.
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