You just pointed out after the fact a good reason for getting a survey
prior to your closing the deal on that house. If you had, the seller
might have been able to get further with his neighbor than you, the new
kid on the block are getting now.
As others have said, you've got to decide which way you want to push
your problem, you'll likely not be able to end up with both your fence
where you want it and a good relationship with that neighbor. Take your
Ah feel yur pain, 'cause a new neighbor swiped about 300 square feet of
our home's lot a couple of years ago when I wasn't paying close enough
attention to what his landscapers were doing. He had them build some
stone retaining walls and planted grass and shrubs on an uncleared
portion of our lot which we weren't using. 15+ years of tree and brush
growth had dulled my memories of where the original survey lines were.
Before I mentioned anything to him I hired a surveyor and spent about
$1,250 getting the lines restaked. A couple of the new survey markers
ended up plunked into his new lawn. This time I made sure I took several
photos of the survey markers in relation to fixed objects so I can use
the pictures for future reference.
I approached the neighbor and asked if he'd be willing to buy the land
he was using from me, for it's proportionate tax assessed value (about
$6,000) or perhaps do a deal with me to annually reimburse the property
taxes I pay on that bit of land (about $90/year nowadays.)
He stalled me for a few months, and I finally decided that it wasn't
worth getting into a pissing contest with the guy over a bit of land I'd
prolly never want to use anyway, or get involved in a legal hassle which
would undoubtedly benefit my lawyer more than it would me. (Like my
uncle Schlomo used to say, "What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?")
Even putting up an ugly fence along my property line through part of
what he'd turned into "his yard" would be an expense that wouldn't gain
me anything, but would give the neighbor reason to hate my guts and
perhaps do nasty hard to prove things to our property or pets.
So, this way I'm still able to wave hello to him when we're both
outside. He returns the wave, and then I turn away so he doesn't see me
muttering "asshole" under my breath.
That neighbor put his place up for sale a few months ago and I called
the listing realtor, introduced myself, and told her to make darn sure
she told potential buyers where the property line was. She seemed to
understand. Maybe the next owner of that home will have a more
responsible attitude towards things and want to do a deal with me over
"my land" when they buy the place. It still does piss me off a little
four times a year when I'm writing a check to our town for property tax
and I remember that the neighbor is enjoying the use of part of "his"
back yard "tax free".
BTW, adverse possession isn't a factor in our case. Our lot is a class
of property called "Registered Land" here in Massachusetts, and we
retain the right to kick any encroacher off no matter how long they've
"borrowed" the use of part of it.
I'm not at all suggesting that the op put his fence where the neighbor
says his line is, but if he does do something like that, the OP should
take steps to prevent the neighbor from gaining adverse possession.
For one thing, he should, and I'm no;t sure the best method for later
proof, notify the nbor that although he is building the fence inside
his property line, he is not waiving his right to the rest of his
property, and he is granting PERMISSION to the nbor to use it until
the OP wants it back. In a way this could be the worst of both
worlds-- he won't have the land and the nbor may well be angry, but
otoh, the nbor may sell the house in 3 years, or for some other reason
the OP may want to pursue his valid claim, and this will keep the time
from now until then from being included in the 7 years I think someone
said Florida required for adverse possession.
Even this piece of this is complicated, and it might be adviseable to
see if the nbor has any chance of ever getting adverse possiession.
Do they require claim of right in Florida? For that matter, the state
of Louisiana is governed in some or large part by French law. Is
Florida at any rate affected by Spanish law? I've never heard that.
Do all 6 parts of the Eunuch rule of adverse possession apply in
Florida? Are there additional requirements?
BTW, there are questions of proof. In the same way the OP may not be
able to get support from his seller that the neighbor knew where the
propertyh line was etc. or that he gave him permission to use that
strip, the mail forwarding for the seller will expire soon, and unless
he has an unusual name, he may be unfindable by the nbor. Thus,
although he may be able to prove it with his own friend's or his kids'
friends, the nbor might not be able to prove he was using the OP's
land before the OP got there, or 7 years before, even if he was. So
maybe the adverse possession time will "toll" only after the OP bought
How long has the n'bor owned his house. I think the time limit starts
anew when the house is sold. Lots of legal questions here, maybe the
legal ng can answer some.
Good for you. There might be more that you can do.
You have a terrible record of asking very important financial and legal
Your first one was your series of questions about IRS liens, IIRC.
You have persisted in asking those very important financial and legal
questions here with resect to this transaction despite being advised
literally dozens of times by at least a half dozen people that you should
hire a real estate lawyer in Dade County to get your legal advice.
What does the lawyer who represented you in this transaction say about the
car on the property which you allege is yours?
You noticed the car before the closing and after the survey, right?
You told your lawyer about the car before the closing, right?
Your lawyer did advise you to get buyer's title insurance, right?
You took your lawyer's advice and bought buyer's title insurance, right?
Go to your lawyer and the title insurance company and have them handle this.
Oh, you didn't hire a lawyer ? You wetre saving money on a multi hundred
thousand dollar invesmen, so you didn't want to spend $ 2 grand?
You didn't get buyer's title insurance because on a multi hundred thousand
dollar investment you wanted to save $ 1,500?
But at least you saved lawyer's fees and the buyer's title insurance
You are too inept to own property.
And you must be...a lawyer. What a terrible, inept, predictable answer.
Sure to keep him coming back for more "well reasoned" advice at $350.00
per hour as opposed to all the great advice he got here.:-)
Jim McLaughlin wrote in message ...
I'm just somebody who actually looks at property before I buy it, notes
obvious issues and insists on the seller resolving them befor I part with a
quarter million bucks.
Apparently neither you nor miamicuse find such everyday caution prudent.
Sort of like this farce posted by miamicuse, as well as the two days ago
post by miamicuse whining about a van apparently left on he front of the
property by his sellers.
Or is this newy found car the same as the van miamicuse was ostng about a
day r two ago.
Miamicuse is too stupid to be allowed out withiut an escort.
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:31:06 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
You must be smiling because you know that none of the legal advice he
got here is reliable.
Some posts disagree with other posts, even on the legal issues. How
do you suggest he decide who is right?
Did you buy title insurance for your house and the lot it is on?
If not, what will you do if there is an error in the title?
Do you buy homeowner's insurance, health insurance, or life insurance?
I do not understand why you have this hostile atitude towards my queries. I
find the answers provided here very informative. Why would you assume that
this is the only place I am soliciting answers? Why would you assume I did
not hire a lawyer? Why do you assume you have the complete picture based on
several posts made by me on different subjects? I think what I am asking is
a common sense question that probably needs a common sense answer before I
resort to legal channels, so if next time someone walks the dog and let the
dog crap on my front door, and I ask for advise would your advise be to hire
a lawyer too? See my answers to your questions inline below.
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughlin> wrote in message
Yes, the property has an IRS lien. The lien last ten years if it does not
refile. I bought the property ten days after the ten year anniversary
expired. It is the job of the title company to search and handle this
matter. They have verified that no refiling has occured and even if so it
would be against the previous owner and would not have transferred to the
property since the ownership has changed. I have purchased title insurance.
In fact, I have paid for title insurance for the lender AND title insurance
for myself for extra insurance.
Why do you assume I did not hire an RE lawyer to handle the transaction? Is
hiring a lawyer and seeking common sense advise mutually exclusive?
Transaction is over. I own the property now. The closing happened a month
ago. My lawyer is no longer involved.
No. It is irrelevant. I do not understand your point. At the time I
purchased the property there is a tenant occupying the house. I naturally
assumed the car is his. There is no reason to assume otherwise.
Yes, and I did.
What is your point?
The problem, I think is that truly intelligent people know they are
intelligent, the not so intelligent ones know they are not so intelligent.
The truly stupid people are too stupid to know they are stupid and they
actually think they are smart. So they sit at the bottom of a well, keep
looking up and keep telling others how small and round the sky is.
When someone responds to you like he did, just ignore them. You have
better things to do with your time and attention than spending any of
it on such a bitter asshole who is trying to get a rise out of you,
and being provocative for its own sake.
Several have suggested using the county web site and lot descriptions.
That's a free way to reconfirm your survey is correct. There's one more
step that no one has mentioned so far. Since you've just bought the house
and had a new survey, go back to the lawyer you used during closing and
explain the problem to him. That initial consultation shouldn't cost you
anything, and it may be that the easiest way to get the car moved is to pay
the lawyer for a couple of hours of work to solve the problem in a
completely open and legal way.
You DID use a lawyer at closing, right?
Before you get in too deep I'd suggest getting a survey done that
includes the placement of boundary markers by the surveyor and results
in you receiving a drawing showing those markers from the surveyor that
bears his signature and seal. Surveys done for title companies are
sometimes less than perfect.
If the surveyor has to affix his seal and signature he will search far
enough back, and verify the boundaries well enough to protect his
professional reputation, license and E&O (Errors & Omissions) insurance
carrier. Also, you will be his client, not the bank.
There is a good chance the the boundary is not exactly where you or your
neighbor think it is.
Oh, boy. Looks like you gotta nightmare on hand. First he can't park/fix
cars like that. My local government won't allow such an acticity. And
survey result..... Feel sorry for you becoming his neighbor.
Well now, EVERYBODY has to weigh in on an important national question
like this- so here I come.
Why has nobody considered the obvious solution of building the
fence through the car? There are many people on this group who can
give competent advice about how to put fence posts through a vehicle
chassis. You could paint your half of the car to match the fence, or
as you choose.
On a more tedious note, let me suggest that you take a little
time with this, try to meet and talk to other neighbors, people in the
area, ask around- not too intrusively- about this guy, see if you can
get a sense of other people's judgment about whether he is someone who
can be reasoned with. Of course you don't want to have to choose
between exercising your rights and getting along with your neighbor-
you may have to, but the more you know about what you're getting into
before you do.... does he have a police record? A local reputation? I
think we do have to stand up to aggressive, hostile people, but usually
better to do it in a low key, non-provocative way.
Of all the advice given, I think the suggestion to offer to bring the
surveyor back to meet with the OP and the neighbor is the best idea.
The surveyor can explain how he determined the property line. And
hearing it from an expert will give the neighbor an opportunity to back
down gracefully, if he so choses.
I also have to agree with the comments that it's pretty stupid to close
on a property when you can see that there is a disabled car straddling
the property line. The time to have dealt with this was before
closing, when it was the seller's problem.
If the neighbor refuses to meet with the surveyor or still refuses to
accept the correct line and move the car, then I would send a
registered letter telling him he has a week to remove the car. Then,
I'd consult a lawyer.
I haven't read all the responses, so maybe someone has already written
Perhaps your neighbor's attitude would improve if he finds out that he
has nine feet *more* land than he thought on the opposite side of his
house. In NY City they have deeds on the web, but I'm guessing you
could request his from the local agency that keeps such records. Try
to get a hold of it. It should define the property. Maybe all the
houses on the block are divided that way. If so you'll have some good
news to tell him.
>..says he disagrees with where the property line is.
CANCEL my post about finding the pins..I finally found that in the long
You re dealing with an idiot and his yard full of Junk Cars.
I'd MAIL him a notice advising him that on a given day, the car was going
to be towed. Make a copy and Mail it so it requires a return signature from
the recipient. On the day specified, if he hasn't moved it, or comes onto
your property to prevent the towing, and IF the tow truck driver hasn't
pounded the crap out of him, call the Sheriff's department/local police and
advise them that he's on your property obstructing and that there may be
trouble.. They should come out and tune the idiot up. Good thing you re
building a fence.
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