I'd suggest you just go down to city hall, give them a copy of the survey (and insist they keep it), and indicate where you intend to set the fence. Have them issue you the proper permit for the fence. With that in hand, send a registered letter to your neighbor including copies of the survey, the plans, and the permit, with a request that his vehicle be removed from your property by a specific date. At that point it'll be up to your neighbor to initiate proceedings to stop you, which will mean hiring a lawyer and maybe having another survey done, too. There's a very good chance that his lawyer would just look at your survey and tell him he's got no case.
If you want to play it safer, you could schedule a meeting with the city inspector or engineer, and advise them of the dispute with your neighbor while applying for the permit. That way they won't be caught by surprise if/when the neighbor calls about it. Every city gets calls about fence fights on a fairly regular basis, so their city inspector or engineer could probably advise you as how to handle the dispute. The advantage to this strategy is that you'll have them on your side from the beginning; the disadvantage is that they might want to delay issuing the permit until the dispute is resolved. That's where your providing them with a copy of the survey comes in handy - you're giving them your evidence upfront, which should help them reach their decision.
If your neighbor decides to hold a grudge over you making lawful use of your property, don't feel compelled to keep trying to repair the relationship. Just continue to be civil and hope that he eventually simmers down.
I definately think it's worthwhile pursuing this, and right now, and with as much legal groundwork laid as possible. This isn't likely a neighbor you'd have a good relationship with anyway, and, if you wimp out about this issue, he's likely to take more advantage.
I had to do some territory-defending with both my immediate neighbors when I moved in, with one we've long made amends and get along well (and they've even admitted their wrong on the early problems, although that wasn't necessary by me); the other has moved away after having pretty much pissed the rest of the neighborhood off on other things.
One thing - make sure a fence on the property line is legal; it is in my munincipaltiy, but not in many. I considered putting up a fence between myself and the problematic neighbor (even in an easment area), and in considering whether or not it should go on the property line or not, some friends and relations pretty much convinced me that putting it on recently surveyed property line is the way to go, as maintaining the ohter side of a fence within my property can be a hassle with a bad neighbor - might as well put it on the line, let him have the nice side (or put up a fence where both sides are nice), write off what paint or whatever he may do on that side, and be done with it.
But this guy is majorly stepping on your toes, and the Nice Neighbor approach has gone as far as it will go. Time to get legalistic and to act according to your interests only.
Well now, EVERYBODY has to weigh in on an important national question like this- so here I come. Why has nobody considered the obvious solution of building the fence through the car? There are many people on this group who can give competent advice about how to put fence posts through a vehicle chassis. You could paint your half of the car to match the fence, or as you choose. On a more tedious note, let me suggest that you take a little time with this, try to meet and talk to other neighbors, people in the area, ask around- not too intrusively- about this guy, see if you can get a sense of other people's judgment about whether he is someone who can be reasoned with. Of course you don't want to have to choose between exercising your rights and getting along with your neighbor- you may have to, but the more you know about what you're getting into before you do.... does he have a police record? A local reputation? I think we do have to stand up to aggressive, hostile people, but usually better to do it in a low key, non-provocative way.
Minor correction - I needed to deal with one neighbor when I moved in 12 years ago (the one where we get along fine now), and the other nine years ago after they bought the undeveloped lot next to me and put a house on it. Then decided my backyard was a conduit to wherever they wanted to go, even sending some dozen of guests across it to get to another house's pool. But still. I take a live and let live attitude as much as possible, but the living and let living shouldn't be happening on my property.
Of all the advice given, I think the suggestion to offer to bring the surveyor back to meet with the OP and the neighbor is the best idea. The surveyor can explain how he determined the property line. And hearing it from an expert will give the neighbor an opportunity to back down gracefully, if he so choses.
I also have to agree with the comments that it's pretty stupid to close on a property when you can see that there is a disabled car straddling the property line. The time to have dealt with this was before closing, when it was the seller's problem.
If the neighbor refuses to meet with the surveyor or still refuses to accept the correct line and move the car, then I would send a registered letter telling him he has a week to remove the car. Then, I'd consult a lawyer.
I haven't read all the responses, so maybe someone has already written this.
Perhaps your neighbor's attitude would improve if he finds out that he has nine feet *more* land than he thought on the opposite side of his house. In NY City they have deeds on the web, but I'm guessing you could request his from the local agency that keeps such records. Try to get a hold of it. It should define the property. Maybe all the houses on the block are divided that way. If so you'll have some good news to tell him.
I think it is still salvagable. Invite him and his wife out to dinner so that "we can talk about things". You'll be paying. He may want to talk about things at home, but he'll do so more willingly, now that like a wolf presenting to the leader of the pack, you've bowed to him a little bit. (Somewhere in this group, I wrote about how I invited my next door neighbor out for a drink so we could discuss things. He didn't want to go and we never discussed things, but he's treated me a lot nicer ever since I invited him.)
If you go, choose some place and time where you can sit at the table a long time and where there is room to put out 2 or 3 pages of paper. Have your legal description but the most imporrtant thing will be the map that I think comes with it. Copy that, and on the copy or on your own sketch, put in more landmarks, and make it clear which ones you put in because he's going to doubt them, and you don't want to look like your lying.
Maybe your survey is enough, but maybe there is some reason he thinks he owns more that your survey shows. In fact you may want to call your surveyor and ask if he has any advice on how to handle this and how to do so tactfully. Also ask him if he verified that the neigbhbor's description to make sure there is no overlap. I'm not saying that is his job. Sort of I think his job is only to take your description and apply it to the land around your house.
But mistakes happen. AFter this n'hood was built, we found out we had built some of it on someone else's land. Until we found out, we were in the position of your neighbor. And it wasn't a matter of moving a car, but of tearing down a house. Of course that wasn't going to happen and both sides were businessmen (who developed the land but didn't live on it) so they worked out a deal for us to give them some of our unbuilt land, in return for keeping the land we had built on.
So it's probably your job to do this: Before you do this, you can go to the county clerk's office and make a copy of the deed to his property. A dollar a page,maybe more now and you only need to copy the legal description, and the map if there is any. Now even though it is public record, he may well find your going to the county clerk's office like looking in his wife's underwear drawer, so after you've compared your description with his, and seeing if there is only one segment of your property line that abuts his, or perhsps more, you'll see the legal description of that segment. Mark that too, maybe overdraw it with a colored pencil.
And you can point out to him how big his yard is on the other side of his house.
(part of my plan is missing here, but never get angry and don't insult him or his intelligence or knowledge of the law. He may have been misled by the seller but don't let it sound like he was a sucker or a fool.)
Somewhere in all this, give him time to talk to his real estate agent or the prior owner (he may fess up if he won't lose money) or his lawyer, or to go to the court house and look at his lot description (Don't offer to show him the copy you made. That was just for your knowledge.) and when he gets the idea that he's going to lose, take them out to dinner again, with no papers. Inviting them to your house for dinner might be nice too, unless your house is nicer than his. OTOH, he's had years to fix his up, so maybe it's not.
rosebud wrote in news:1fudnXQK-t7GJwTZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
And be sure to give him an invoice for half the price of the fence too to really piss him off! Most bylaws require that neighbors sharing a property line must share the cost of the fence. Our bylaw states that half the cost of a chain link fence must be paid but most share costs of wooden privacy fences.
Not exactly true. Adverse Posession states that the person must be using the property "open and notoriously" AND "must be paying the taxes". The Adverse Posession law was put into effect when the Dust-Bowlers packed up and moved west and left their property. It allowed for someone else to come in and take over the property and petition for legal ownership,,, NOT for a neighbor to start squeezing you off of your property because they have more junk than they have room for.
You have a right to have them move their crap so you can use your property as you see fit.
Around here, the "corners" of property are pegged with a square 1/2" X 1/2" iron 'pin' driven deep into the ground by the surveyors who laid out the plat for the original developer. If you're lucky, you may have the same. Try digging where the survey says the corner of your property is.
CANCEL my post about finding the pins..I finally found that in the long thread.
You re dealing with an idiot and his yard full of Junk Cars.
I'd MAIL him a notice advising him that on a given day, the car was going to be towed. Make a copy and Mail it so it requires a return signature from the recipient. On the day specified, if he hasn't moved it, or comes onto your property to prevent the towing, and IF the tow truck driver hasn't pounded the crap out of him, call the Sheriff's department/local police and advise them that he's on your property obstructing and that there may be trouble.. They should come out and tune the idiot up. Good thing you re building a fence.
I have that too. Last year my neighbour got really mad and threatened to sue me because I had some tree branches trimmed off my roof.
This summer my neighbour on the other side of my house brought over a metal detector and we found the property marker for my house. The nine trees between the angry neighbour and my house are completely on my side of the property line.
Not only that. Once you build your fence on the wrong property line you will have trouble selling your house should the buyer do a property line survey.
I have a "good neighbor" case of my own. The first owner of the adjacent property paved his driveway so that it had a wedge 50 feet long with the base side encroaching some 24 inches into my curbside end. To correct the property line meant he won't have access to a rear garage should he decide to build one. Since It wouldn't affect the placement of my yet-to-be-built house and his encroachment would only affect my detached garage I said don't worry about it.
Such markers are around here, LA, as well. They usually are not on boundaries, the the boundaries can be measured from them. Unfortunately, earthquakes and trees can move them.
I metal detect for a hobby. I have located many property markers for people. The brass ones are very very easy to find. The steel stakes are just very easy.
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