Hey gang -- a question. I have a neighbor who is clearing out a bunch of trees. Depending on which trees he decides to pull out, this could have a substantial affect on my property both in terms of drainage/erosion as well as wind breaks.
I know there are typically laws/ordinances about doing these types of things so I wanted to see if anyone had any tips on what to look and where to look. Naturally, I'm going to talk to him about it before I go the legal route but I need to have my p's and q's together with this guy -- he's a tough neighbor to deal with on just about anything.
Before talking to him, go to your city, county, or other local governing body and ask to see tree cutting & land clearing regulations/ordinances. You need ammunition in the gun before pulling the trigger, so to speak. Your neighbor may have every right to do what he is doing, or may not. If he has already taken out trees that violates local regulations/ordinances, he may have to replace what was removed.
I think Tom offers good advice, as you should know specifically what your "legal" rights might be in the matter. But by & large, there are not apt to be ordinances that permit you to stop someone from taking trees off their own property. The best thing would be if you could talk to the guy in a totally friendly way & ask if he would permit you to have some input into what is removed & what remains, for reasons of erosion, windbreak, & beauty in the neighborhood. If he's a good egg he'll let you help in the decision making. If he seems reluctant you could get SLIGHTLY tougher about it, perhaps suggesting that it would awful if a year or two years down the line predictable erosion damage forced a legal suit that could end up driving a wedge between otherwise friendly neighbors. If he's dead set against you sticking your nose into decisiosn about his property, then write a polite letter (so that everything is in writing) noting what trees you hope he decides to leave, because they are protecting your property from erosion & to remove them would have a predictable adverse affect on both properties. That way, if it does end up in court with you trying to get damages after the erosion, or stop a clear-cut before it happens, there'll be no way he can argue that it was unpredictable or that he didn't know there could be an adverse effect. Obviously it's going to work out much better for everyone if without threats or illwill you can agree what is best for both properties before anything's taken down. Healthy beautiful trees on a property with landscaping beauty increases property value; he harms even himself if he takes away something that is impossible or expensive to replace.
I would be surprised if there exists a law to prevent him from cutting down a few trees. He should be responsible to control erosion, but that is easily fixed by growing grass.
Generally speaking, any act that negatively affects the value of your property is potentially illegal or at the very least open to civil litigation. This might include things you wouldn't necessarily think of immediately, such as increased run-off of storm water into your lot, or changes in protected ecosystems such as wetlands or riparian zones.
Depending upon where you live and how enviormentally aware your local government is, the clearing of trees above a certain girth on private residential land may require a permit process or review. You should investigate and make sure your neighbor is conforming to the letter of the law. If you tell us the city or county, I'm sure we can find the pertinent info.
You're wise to try to strike up a dialogue with the goal of reaching a mutually agreable course of action.
Other comments you have received appear appropos, but don't discount how the removal of trees and/or associated disturbance of soil and topography may affect drainage. In most municipalities, adversely impacting drainage or altering drainage so that runoff transverses someone else's property is a serious no-no. If land is flat and drainage is not a concern, proceed with whatever course of action you feel appropriate - if not, check with whatever city officials oversee those issues first.
Although what you can or can't dop is up to individual city county state laws, ordinances, here were I am from I do anything i darn well desire with anything on my propery no matter what my neighbor thinks.
He may be able to cut overhanging limbs from "my" trees, but only I if I choose can cut "MY" trees without any permision from anyone. I guess having the "permission" to do this is all about living in a non-nazi type state unlike Kalifornia and some others.
I wonder why he a tough cookie to deal with......perhaps its from having folks that don't pay his mortgage payments and such try and tell him what he can and can't or should not do on his own property.
Plant your own trees and have total c>===Hey gang -- a question. I have a neighbor who is clearing out a bunch of
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expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy.
Regardless of the tree hugger I am, my first reaction is mind your own! It's his land. Perhaps you have an enlightened local government and have a place to complain and affect a change in strategy for removal. Bee has the best advise yet..."palnt your own trees", David as usual hasn't a clue, as if hiring an attorney is an affordable solution! *VBG*
Find out what your local laws are. Around here, you need a permit to cut down trees with trunks larger than a certain diameter, but getting the permit isn't a major deal. Changing the topography in such a way that run-off adversely affects a neighbor is usually a big no-no, but some places if you change the elevation of an area bigger than x by more than y inches you may need a permit. If this activity is part of developing the property, parts of the plan may be allowed by the development plan, but in other areas separate permits and plans need approval from different bodies.
In general I doubt that you'll find anywhere with an ordinance that will address windbreaks, or sun vs. shade issues, or aesthetic issues. But you never know. Those things may be addressed by a HOA or in the CC&R's.
You say he's a tough neighbor to deal with, but that may be because of the way people approach him. Do you know *why* he's clearing them out? Could part of his plan be good for you? Maybe if you help him with the parts that will be good for you, you might be able to talk him into a compromise on the parts that aren't.
Before you entrench yourself too much into the position that what he's doing will adversely affect your property, think about how you'd feel if a neighbor came to you with nothing but complaints about what you're doing on your property. While you want to protect your property, and your rights to enjoy it the way you see fit, your neighbors want the same thing. They don't want to have to get your approval to make changes to their property any more than you want to get approval before you do something on yours.
Of course we do have laws that govern the use of our property, but as I'm sure you already realize, they don't cover everything, and even when the subject is something covered, dealing with a neighbor on a personal level ultimately results in better solutions than going strictly by the law.
To sum up my rambling, try to understand *why* your neighbor is doing what he's doing is the first step. And if his plans adversely affect you too much, your best route is to come up with a plan that meets his objectives, and adversely affects you less. (And offering to help in implementing it may be your key to success.)
What kind of area are we talking about here? A suburban lot? An rural acre or more?
In urban/suburban situations, there typically *aren't* laws about changing your landscaping, particularly about safely *removing* trees. There may be local regs about what kinds of trees you can plant, and how much brush and weeds consitute a nuisance and must be cleared. This is covered locally by the "Codes & Compliance" division my city's gov't.
Just because your neighbors' trees have been providing a nice windbreak or other incidental benefits doesn't require him to keep them for your convenience.
You appear to be anticipating problems (other than wind) which you don't actually know will occur. If it can be demonstrated/documented that similar action in a similar area has resulted in significant damage to surrounding properties, you may have some sort of a case.
If he is a tough cookie, do you want to go to the trouble and expense of legal proceedings? I'm sure it's possible, but *I* wouldn't want to live next to a neighbor I'd brought into court. It couldn't hurt to go over and express your concerns in a reasonable and friendly way.
That really depends on your area. Several places that I've lived n have very strict ordinances about not cutting down trees. The original poster doesn't mention if he's in a rural or urban setting - but it might be worth contacting the local forestry department, to see if there are any applicable regulations.
I live on 20 mostly wooded acres. The property next to me (26 acres) was sold last year to a man that owns an excavating company. The 26 acres that sold has a small river that winds through most of the property with many areas of wetlands. There is not much clear, dry land in the entire property that is suitable for building. The man proceeded to put a driveway (road) in from the main road to the very back of the property which totals a little more than a quarter mile. We have an open field to the west of our property which enabled us to watch his progress. He had to remove many trees and used a huge machine to tear them out of the ground and a dozer to haul them to the giant burning pile which was burning all day & night for days. He hauled in large piles of stone and broken concrete for fill. We figured he knew what he was doing because this was the business he was in and that he had contacted the right agency and obtained the proper permits. When he progressed farther towards the back of his property we noticed that he was driving on our property to get to the rear of his. We spoke with him at this time, showed him where the property line was and asked if he'd had his property surveyed. He had not. In order for him to get to the back of his property without driving on ours, he had to fill in a large area of wetlands. He decided to have his property serveyed. We called the agency (DEQ) in our area to see if he had obtained the permission to re-route some smaller creeks and fill in wetlands and he had not. They came out and saw all the damage he had done and posted a "Stop Work" order on his property. He has not done any further work on his driveway for almost a year now. He made the comment to us that he was barely keeping his hind end out of jail. He has destroyed what was once a beautiful piece of property. Sue in Mi. (zone 5)
Well, it sounds like a righteous opinion, anyway, and it sort of goes without saying that the writer's opinion is the writer's opinion. are you really a Hermione or are you just having it on with me?
What I wouldn't give for a 20 acre plot. In our case, it's an urban lot that is 50' x 200' in size. The neighbor's property is right about the same (I think his is a tad wider and a tad shorter). All of the homes here are basically cut back into hills and the hills continue behind our properties. To say the least, drainage is a MAJOR problem -- I'll wager our houses sit several hundred feet lower than the topmost point of the hill behind and it stretches back around a mile or two with houses built all over on it. Being at the bottom of the hill means lots and lots of run off. Thankfully, much of the hill is wooded so there's SOME relief -- if they did any more building back there we'd be in serious trouble! The street we live on has started flooding as a result of the changes to the lay of the land in recent years -- I've lived here for nearly 30 years and never seen such a thing until this spring and it's happened several times.
Our neighbor has a stated goal of clearing out a couple dozen trees in favor of usable lawn space. While it's a shame to see the trees go, that also means that the area will be opened up so it might not be quite a swamp (a bone of contention we've had with him for several years now due to mosquitoes -- the house has been largely abandoned for years). I think he's in for a rude awakening though when he gets that all cleared out -- he's going to create a whole new flood zone. We'll be adding a dry creek along that side of the property to hopefully catch any extra run off but with all the current drainage issues and increased rainfall...well, let's just say I'll keep a boat handy in the living room. :)
I agree, as long as everything is done legally and for the environment. (I have grand kids that I want to protect.)
Keywords being "show the agency" & "correctly." He didn't even contact or inform anyone of his plans.
Obviously we have different laws as to the preservation of wetlands here in Mi. He will either have to pay a hefty fine to the state, be made to restore the property to its original state or serve time in jail if he refuses the first two solutions.
I am not an unfriendly, sneaky neighbor. After speaking with the property owner, we discovered that we knew him and his fiance. I am not spying. My view from this computer in my office looks directly towards his property. In Mi. it gets cold and dark here quite early in the fall and I can't do any gardening outside. (Which is the basis of this message board.) I don't have too much time on my hands and I am a private person who doesn't care what others do as long as it's legal. If he only would have pulled the right permits he would have been OK. Also let me add that I'm not the only one or the first one in the area that questioned his actions. Three other property owners called to report him before I called, which was to a different agency and only to ask if he pulled the right permits. Sue in Mi. (zone 5)
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (SAS567) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m01.aol.com:
My husband spent the last two weeks clearing underbrush and trees that we thought needed to be removed. We didn't go on anybodys property but ours. We didn't ask anybody. We had two backhoes and really cleaned up. We also dug out the creek bed. Just who are you suppost to ask if you want to do something to property that you own? My Grandfather bought this property in 1904. We have never ask anybody when we wanted to do something to this property. I cannot believe we would need any kind of permit.
well, i believe there are MANY MANY more regulations which encumber the use of private property; there may be even neighborhood associations which further limit what one may do, to which people voluntarilly submit....they give up personal freedom in order to limit the freedom of others. HOWEVER there are zoning laws and if done rightfully, they would protect the nature of your neighborhood, they would preserve standards of population density and would protect your enjoyment of your property. People chose to live in places which have the desired quality of life, and something which screws it up, like a strip mall in a fairly rural area, for example, or, some industrial thing which belches crap into the air, this does not belong in a nice rural residental neighborhood. So a person wanting to smelt iron or spray pain cars would look for an area zoned for that sort of use, and not wind up next to your nice house.
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