that did indeed make the news not long ago, today insurance does whatever it can to avoid paying claims.
I noted you made no comment on all the other related issues i raised.
why should K&T last forever while everything else in the home gets replaced on a regular basis?
Insurance pays for what is covered -- what isn't covered isn't paid for. Some insurers are easier to work with than others--just as any other area of human interaction.
Because they had nothing to do w/ the initial complaint and are a common tactic of the weak argument -- when no recourse on the subject at hand, bring in another.
Again, nothing to do w/ the question at hand...
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If measured right, some 3-ways were connected as your measurements indicate. Either 1 or 2 is the neutral, the other is the hot (the blue wires on Terry's diagram). The odd color on the switch goes to 3 and 4. In operation each side of the light is switched between hot and neutral. When both sides of the light were neutral, or both hot, the light is off. It is not code compliant to wire a new light this way now, but
3-ways sometimes were wired this way long ago. [Anyone know if it was ever code compliant?]Probably harder to troubleshoot because the open connection may be further away - it affects the hot feed to both 3-ways.
------------- You may have noticed halerb has a fethish about K&T.
Every time I read his rediculous posts, my computer plays Twilight Zone music, I don't get it
Thanks. I'm going to a little more tomorrow to see what I can figure out. At this point, it's just a game -- a puzzle that I want to see if I can figure out.
In the end, I do plan on rewiring the entire house -- either with me doing some (cutting holes and pulling wires) and an electrician doing all of the rest, or with an electrician doing the whole thing.
But, for now, I'm having a good time trying to see if I can find where the disconnect is in the hallway light setup.
RBM wrote: ...
Maybe you need a new roll of tin foil...
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So what you are saying is he could have this: (The "Lazy Susan" switching arrangement)
I don't know how close you have been following the thread, but he used an inductance pocket tester and has verified that no wire is hot at either switch or at the light.
I am starting to get a K&T fetish.
I suspect the problem is a switch rather than a wiring connection failure. but with the connections soldered, buried in the walls it will be hard to find and may be a sign of a lareger problem..........
if a soldered connection failed perhaps more will, and the next one may overheat and cause a fire........
to the naysayersa of replace the K&T I gather you dont believe in maintaing your home.
come time to sell and it may be impossible for the buyer to get homeowners insurance and thus no mortage, effectively killing the sale.
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...
But it's going to have burned down by tonight, anyway, so what's the difference?
Get off the BS, crap..._IF_ (and that's the proverbial "big if") and when an insurance company refuses to write coverage, it can be fixed then. Despite your BS claims, I've yet to find any indication of any major underwriter that will not write for K&T as a blanket prohibition. They _might_ require an inspection.
I've done enough retrofits from antebellum to WWII boom time frame I've lost count and K&T wiring has _NEVER_ been an inhibition to a sale.
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My local state farm agent reports state farm will write no new policies for homes with K&T.....
so you wait till home sale time and K&T kills the sale? plus you may not have the bucks to rewire your entire home or pay more......
planned in advance makes rewiring more manegable.
plus rewiring requires access holes in walls and cielings, so you fix up your home, K&T becomes a deal breaker, then you get to fix your home twice.....
Even if he has a Carter three way, he still has to have a hot leg somewhere in the system. If he's tested with an inductive tester, that he knows is working, and gets no light, he's got an open hot leg. He should be able to check for a grounded leg using a grounded pipe or extension cord and continuity tester. Once he finds the leg that's grounded, he should be able to determine which leg should be hot, and backtrack from there
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...
My search of State Farm the last time you spouted this nonsense corroborated no such thing...
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call a agent and ask...........
please report back and remember others here have reported they couldnt get homeowners or had 6 months to replace it, or lose coverage
We balance tires, rotate tires, change oil, grease, tune up, replace tires, replace brake pads, replace light bulbs, wax the exterior, vacuum the carpet, replace wiper blades, replace the windshield when it gets broken or pitted, change air filter, change oil filter, replenish wiper fluid, check and change automatic trans fluid, and probably a hundred other things we do to our automobiles.
But, i've never heard of re-wiring one just because it got old. It's not a viable argument.
s
that did indeed make the news not long ago, today insurance does whatever it can to avoid paying claims.
I noted you made no comment on all the other related issues i raised.
why should K&T last forever while everything else in the home gets replaced on a regular basis?
I've never even heard of one requiring an inspection. And I've bought many houses, and most of them have at least some K&T wiring. I wasn't even asked about the wiring. I believe these phantom insurance company stories are just that, stories.
s
And they won't. Because there is no such criteria from them.
s
t's not a
some friends got caught up, insurance required replacing K&T, rebuilding a front porch, replacing some bad sections of sidewalk, and installing a railing on outside steps.
its nice you service your vehicles, do you ever replace them?
do you know anyone with a vehicle as old as K&T???????
like i said would some others call state farm and ask?
homeowners insurance has changed a lot in the last 10 years
and those of you with K&T at home resale time you can remember this discussion when you cant sell your home...........
Yup. The continuity measurements fit that circuit assuming all wires read a few ohms max.
But not between the switches. A bad connection from a hot to the wiring connecting the switches.
I believe the voltage tester uses capacitance coupling to the wire.
*IF* the tester is sensitive enough to provide an indication when 3 or 4 inches from a hot wire, BETA might be able to trace the wire with the voltage tester. That requires making the dead wire hot. Kill any circuit that may possibly have originally fed the light. Bring power to the switch location with an extension cord. Connect a small light bulb (like with a pigtail socket) to the extension cord hot. Connect the other side the light bulb to wire 1 then 2. The light bulb should light up when connected to the neutral (an alternate method of finding the neutral to RBM's post). Connect the light bulb to the other wire, which should be the wire that no longer connects to the building hot. Trace the wire through the walls with the voltage tester. This has worked for me on occasion. But don't try it unless you understand how it works and the significant safety issues. And check that the voltage tester is sensitive enough (in ceilings you may need more than 4 inch sensitivity).For one K&T problem I cut at least 6 holes in a ceiling so I could insert a voltage tester and mirror to follow the wire. K&T can be a pain.
Geez - you and hallerb could start a club.
Lets say we have enough information to say that this is the switching arrangement he has. (finding continuity from one of the travelers to neutral would verify this) Should he try to repair it?
Having a 3-way switching arrangement like this causes the screw shell of the light fixture to be hot in two of the 4 positions. (even with the lamp off)
I think the only acceptable fix would be to find the splices in the travelers and disconnect them. Then run a new hot and neutral to the light and make a proper 3-way connection.
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