it appeared to end around 1950 but codes back then were regional or
community based so a limited amount was installed after that.
a excellent product of the time, thats totally inadquate today.
Its the model A of wiring, the ford model A would never be approved to
be sold as new today........
its a collectors item at best
For that matter, if the development of gasoline engine automobiles was
somehow delayed until the start of the 21st century, our hired hands in
gummint would never approve a moving vehicle carrying such a significant
amount of highly flammable liquid, much less let them be parked in
garages under bedrooms in which homeowners sleep. <G>
You can find lots of info in the book " Old Electrical Wiring " by David E.
The NFPA writes the National Electric Code, but it is and has always been
superceded by any local codes. In the 1960's grounded circuits were
required, so that pretty much ended the use of K&T. My understanding is that
Cleveland used it right up until this point. It's also written that some
areas in Louisiana used it up until the 80's because it worked well in areas
that flooded often. My personal experience with K&T is that if it's left in
it's original condition without being tampered with, the stuff would last
forever. I've never found any wiring type, up until thermoplastic, that has
held up as well
Right. The local electrical unions had a lot to say about when the
installation of K&T stopped. My former house in the Cleveland, OH area had
K&T and it was built in 1958. I think areas in and around Chicago were
installing it after Cleveland though.
replying to RBM, engineer/realtor wrote:
I have a couple of rental properties with K&T (sometimes referred to as knob and
spool). Attic access is limited and usually damage to suspended wiring is a
result of crawling around in the attic. I changed out the plugs to 3 prong and
was surprised to find the insulation in really good shape. For the most part,
Europe does not reference their power systems to ground and use 220
distribution. They have fewer lightning problems, can use smaller conductors,
have plugs that disconnect before anyone can touch prongs. Safety is less a
problem. GFCI's are not required outside and in wet areas.
On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:44:05 AM UTC-4, engineer/realtor wrote:
I assume you mean you changed the non-grounded receptacles to ones with
ground? Since K&T has no ground, what did you do about that? The only
code compliant solution I know of is to use GFCI.
How For the most
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.
sorry no will be the response.
since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.
I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.
I'm pretty sure it took him 3 or more likely 6 months. He was probaby
preparing for other repairs too, redoing the kitchen, new furnace,
repairing the barn. Plus he runs his own business, including doing
sales, "management", and often service calls because it's so hard to
find competent technicians. He also often takes emergency service
calls during off hours. He also rides a horse 2 to 4 times a month,
and to get a discount on the horse, he mucks stalls, which takes time,
though he might not have done any of that when he first got the house.
He also takes vacations, including one where he was on a miniature
cattle drive. Plus one to a car show in upstate NYS. Plus he's
married, though maybe he has no time for his wife! But he does do
chores for his mother-in-law, who's a widow. Oh yeah, he was
president of the Buick club for years, but now I think he's only in
charge of their shows, whatever they are called. (Once a year they get
a Buick dealer to lend them space for a day, etc. and get 30 or 40
restored or partially restored or never needed restoring Buicks from
members to display.) He used to be a boy scout leader too but he
gave that up. He restores old Buicks but that's been on hold since
he bought the new used house.
I don't like to "pry" into his business life, but I think this is the
kind of question I can ask him. But I'm not going to call him
special. I plan to post more details once I get them.
He might have gotten the mortgage when they weren't asking questions.
Is that possible, that they wouldn't insist on speedy replacement of
the knob and tube? Wait a second. It's the insurance company, not
the mortgage company, that asks those questions. ?? Would the
mortgagee ever not require insurance, even during the liar-loan
The guy who arranged the mortgage on the home and outbuilding he
bought for his business said if he applied now (5 years ago), he
couldn't get the mortgage. (His office is on the second floor and
attic. He remodeled the whole house and rents the first floor to two
business tenants. He rents the basement to another one -- it was a
church for a while!! He also remodelled the outbuilding, which was
partly a garage but quite a bit bigger than most, and he rents that to
another business. When fully rented the 4 are about enough to pay the
mortgage. Probably paid someone for all the remodeling since it's
clearly deductable, but that costs money too. I don't know how that
money is borrowed (the original mortgage or a second loan?) But he
made it through the recession and is, he told me about a year ago,
making money now. More clients are paying their bills, for one
thing. I'd like him to be a rich man by the time he retires but the
clock is ticking down.
On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
Here's an interesting coincidence...
My first recollection of knob and tube wring is noticing the remains of it at my
Great-Aunt's house. She was my beloved Godmother and I some a lot of time in her
house while growing up. The knobs and some of the cables could be seen in the
joist bays of the dirt floor basement. That wiring is one of my first recollections of
being interesting in how houses worked.
My current house, which my Godmother gave me a chunk of money for, still has some
of the next generation wiring, braided cloth sheathed NM (what some people call
cloth covered Romex). On the jacket of some of the cable is the name of the manufacturer:
Ok, here comes the coincidence...
My Godmother's house is located on Narragansett Blvd. When I see that cable in my
basement, it often reminds me of Ciocia Josie and her really neat old house. I like to think
she's still around, still making sure I'm OK.
On Sun, 22 May 2016 06:13:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
I think old houses inspire interest more readily.
That's a good island.
You haven't burned the house down have you? No serious traffic
20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw) had fixed it up nicely (much nicer than when my GP's had it) and
he showed me the basement, where he had found a target range. Only
about half of the basement was 8 feet deep, and the rest was about 3
feet deep and there was only the light that bounced in from the other
half (which didn't reach to the end), and at the far end of the second
part, he found targets, with holes in them. And bullets too. I
can't imagine it was my GF, so it was someone 1945 or earlier who used
that target range.
replying to bob haller, engineer/realtor wrote:
I had no problem getting insurance on these properties. But I also kept my
mouth shut and their inspector just did a drive by. They are insured as rentals
and at highway robbery rates...
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