Improving Flush in 1.6gpf toilets

[Rich Heimlich]

I bought a pair of highly-recommended Kohler 1.6 gpf toilets. Both are the first 1.6gpf toilets I've owned.

After a few months of use, I've found that basically, both of them are great unless someone does more than urinate in the toilet. If they do, the toilet requires pretty much two flushes. The problem is that it's usually the next person coming along that finds this out and has to do the flushing.

Obviously we'd like to address that. I opened up both toilets hoping to just extend the left float device to allow more water into the tank but find that both toilets have center assemblies (sorry, I don't know the proper terms here) where the overflow goes that extend right up to the lip of the water. Thus if I raised the float device, the extra water would just flow into the center drain tube forever.

What is everyone doing to deal with this? Is there an extension for the center assembly? Is there a better way?

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I have no experience of Kohler toilets. Our American Standard Champions have never needed more than one flush: *everything* just disappears with a "whoosh."

IIRC, the part in the middle of the tank is the "Flush Tower" in AS-speak.

It doesn't seem to me as though there is anything you could do to improve the flushing efficiency. But how is the drain pipe? Any partial blockages? Any venting problems?

IF the system cannot be improved, just settle for double flushing when necessary. That would still be using less water than a single flush of a

4+ gal. toilet, and it's using that much only now and again. Most of the time it's using only one-third as much as the old type.

Perce

On 09/07/05 04:43 pm Rich Heimlich tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

[Amun]

You aren't the only one not happy with your low volume "doubleflusher".

If yours is a bad design there is little you can do but replace it or live with it.

A quick google for "toilet ratings" will help you find a good replacement. A lot of the newest ones have "pressurized jets" that blow things down the pipe

Or,....you can find an old full size one, drop it in and don't tell anyone. Call a local plumber and tell them next time they are changing a toilet, you will buy the old one for a few bucks

AMUN

[Greg O]

Is all the water leaving the tank when you flush? Some low water use toilets have an adjustable float on the flush valve to control how much water leaves the tank. On my toilets in my home if you need a good flush, just hold down the lever until the flush is done. Greg

[Jeff G]

If there's room, just extend the center drain tube with a short piece of PVC pipe (or treated rubber) and a clamp. Then raise the float.

Does the flapper also have an attached float? If so, move it closer to the flapper. And if not, try installing one attached very close to the flapper, which will extend the length of time it stays open and allow more water into the bowl with each flush.

[Rich Heimlich]

There is, but I expect there'd the less benefit given what I just saw when I payed attention this time.

Just slightly more than half the water in the tank went into the bowl.

Yep, hadn't really noticed it before and I had the ability test one by moving the float down 3 "knobs" on the chain. Seemed to help but not a lot. I don't get why the flange is so quick to close. It never was this quick before with older toilets.

However, I suspect Greg is also right that these allow you to just hold the handle down longer to get all the water in the tank. I just hate having to think about it.

I'll try out combinations to see what works. I suspect if I can get 2 to 2.5 gallons going, I'd be just fine.

I saw a toilet that had two handles, one for liquid waste and one for solid waste. That looked interesting. I'd just hate to have to explain it to everyone.

[gfretwell]

Is it a one piece? If so I am looking for an answer too. The problem is the way the thing is cast there is really not much you can do. I "flushed" the same question through this NG a while ago with no joy.

[gfretwell]

Tried that Every electtion since 88. Still can't get the crap out of the bowl

[Vic Dura]

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:43:42 -0400, Rich Heimlich wrote Re Improving Flush in 1.6gpf toilets:

Most of them work that way.

[Rudy]

I also have 3 Kohler 1.6 GPF Wellworth toilets. Put them in our last house too. Ours are the oval shaped "comfort height" model.

We haven't had a problem, following the old

"If its brown, hold it (the lever) down"

The normal flush only uses half the water in the tank

[Jeff G]

Yes there is. Vote Libertarian.

[Wayne Boatwright]

On Wed 07 Sep 2005 09:41:46p, wrote in alt.home.repair:

How much space is between the center tube and the underside of the lid? You might be able to friction fit a short length of heavy-wall plastic tubing to make this tube effective longer, then you adjust the float for a higher water level.

[Wayne Boatwright]

On Wed 07 Sep 2005 10:15:03p, wrote in alt.home.repair:

Time for a porta-pottie. Have it hauled away!

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 09/08/05 03:30 am Vic Dura tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

The two American Standard Champions we installed have *never* needed to be flushed more than once.

Perce

[Dennis Turner]

I think some one else has said this, but if you have poorly designed 1.6 gallon toilets, you will never be happy with them. Replace them with good ones. I had a Kohler and a Universal-Rundle in a previous home which I installed during bathroom remodels. Both were chosen for appearance rather than function. Both were horrible.

I had a new home built last year and chose the builder's standard toilets which turned out to be Vitra (a brand I'd never heard of). Thought I would wind up replacing them after moving in as they were not particularly good looking units. However, I have been so impressed with the Vitra toilets which NEVER clog that I would recommend them to friends and acquaintances. A lot of people recommend Toto or Caroma toilets as good flushers. I remember visiting a website that listed flush performance of various models of toilets, although I can't remember where it was. Not surprisingly, my Vitras were rated near the top. Don't mess with crappy toilets, replace them.

[gfretwell]

The problem is the "tube" isn't round. it is a rectangle

[gfretwell]

You also have the problem about the location of the flush handle hole. If the water level is too high water comes out that hole.

[Andy]

Andy suggests:

Some of the low flush toilets have two modes of operation, which they don't tell you about.

If you push down the flush handle and let it go quickly, only about half the water goes to the bowl. This is for flushing pee.

If you hold the flush handle down for 3-4 seconds before releasing it, all the tank water goes into the bown. This is for flushing poop.

My toilets work fine using the pee technique for both types, usually. But, occasionally, it is necessary to use the poop technique. One develops judgement in this area, after a few tries.....

Good luck,

Andy

[Rich Heimlich]

[Rich Heimlich]

Dennis,

According to the research that I believe you pointed me to (which was an extremely interesting study, by the way), it appears I can get what I need simply by replacing the "early-closing" flapper with a standard flapper and my problem should go away.