How do fridge freezers ever work?

[Rod Speed]

Not in your first para you didn't;

Have fun explaining the much wider ambient range that bekos work over.

[trader_4]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 2:18:57 PM UTC-4, Undersized hippopotamus wr ote:

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sage

to cool the freezer with the compressor, then blow air from one compartment to the other to get the fridge cool. I would design this so the fan and c ompressor were independant, with seperate thermostats, but I've not noticed the fan and compressor come on individually, and a quick glance of the cir cuit diagram on the back (not for this purpose) as I was positioning it, I' m sure I remember only one stat. It wouldn't have cost much more just to a dd one stat!!

e's one in each. Yet it will still only run the compressor and fan both at once. They must be wired up a really pointless and stupid way.

n't tolerate low ambient temperatures.

I understand that fridges have low temp limits, below which they won't operate correctly. I said I know people here in the NYC area that have old fridges that they put in their attached garages, that work during winter, apparently without problems. I would expect those garages are above freezing most of the time, get down to or a little below freezing once in awhile. I also said if you have a cold application, you should check the specs of the unit under consideration.

With a rewiring, this one could. One stat could run the freezer as though it was a normal standalone freezer. The other stat could suck air from th e freezer to cool the fridge when necessary. One fan, one compressor, two stats, as it already has.

As others have pointed out, at some point the refrigerating compressor syst em will not work period and I don't see what rewiring any fridge is going to do to overcome physics.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

With a fridge only, I don't see the problem, below 5C it doesn't have to come on anyway!

The problem lies with combined units, where the stat works in one half and the other half's temperature is guessed, assuming a certain ambient temperature.

Freezer only units should also work outdoors. If the ambient is above -20C, then why shouldn't it work? If it's below -20C, it doesn't have to!

It doesn't have to work if the ambient is as low as you want the insides. But if it's higher, then why shouldn't it? Plenty folk have freezers in garages here that work just fine, at any ambient temperature from +20C to -20C.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

On second thoughts, I think the fridge "stat" may be a valve for the fan. It's a large wheel instead of the smaller wheel you get on stats. That would make it work well at any ambient temperature, after manual adjustment of the fridge "stat" to blow less air.

[danny burstein]

[fullll snipppppppppp]

c'mon everyone, as we used to say (back when Usenet was still a thing) over in alt.folklore.urban, "twiavbp" -> The world is a very big place

In other words, there ain't just one design for this, that, or the other thing. In this case, there are plenty of arrangements for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers, and the like.

You takes your choice of efficiency, price, reliablity, and the rest.

For example, we used to have a refrigerator/freezer with a single door, and the freezer was on the inside near the top, with a second door covering it.

The cooling coils surrounded that section, and the chilling "fell" down, so to speak, into the refrigerator section. The thermostat was located in a small box sticking out into the refrigerated portion.

There was also a small drawer just below the freezer for placing misc items that you wanted to be kind of at, just below, or just above,freezing temp.

Now... there was _also_ a flap at the back of the drawer which, when folded forward, left a gap of (numbers for illustration) six inches for the cold to drop down, and when extended, cut that gap down to an inch.

The instructions explained that if you left the thermostat (which, again, is in the refrigerator) set the same way, then the freezer would be colder with the flap extended and a bit warmer (but still below freezing) with it folded over.

Ditto for that drawer

Yeah, that really is the case... think about it.

It was a simple, crude, cheap, and idiot proof production method.

[Rod Speed]

But doesn?t work when you want something like half fridge and half freezer and doesn?t do frost free either.

[trader_4]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 3:52:32 PM UTC-4, Undersized hippopotamus wr ote:

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ms to cool the freezer with the compressor, then blow air from one compartm ent to the other to get the fridge cool. I would design this so the fan an d compressor were independant, with seperate thermostats, but I've not noti ced the fan and compressor come on individually, and a quick glance of the circuit diagram on the back (not for this purpose) as I was positioning it, I'm sure I remember only one stat. It wouldn't have cost much more just t o add one stat!!

here's one in each. Yet it will still only run the compressor and fan both at once. They must be wired up a really pointless and stupid way.

can't tolerate low ambient temperatures.

come on anyway!

d the other half's temperature is guessed, assuming a certain ambient tempe rature.

You're the only one here claiming that's how it works. First you claimed there is only one thermostat. Then you said there are two. With two, they regulate the temp in BOTH the fridge and freezer. I have one right here, the fridge is set to 39, the freezer to -20F. I can set them independently.

0C, then why shouldn't it work?

As others have explained to you, the compressor and refrigerant system may not be designed to operate below a certain temp. One issue is they have oil in the compressor. If it's 20F outside, the compressor may not run or may burn up trying to start. On the other hand, as I said, I know people who have fridge/freezer combos that are in attached garages that occasionally get below freezing and I haven't heard of any problems. But if you're expecting to buy a brand new $1000 unit and put it anywhere outside the typical range of a heated house, I would look at the specs or you might get surprised.

If it's below -20C, it doesn't have to!

ough it was a normal standalone freezer. The other stat could suck air fro m the freezer to cool the fridge when necessary. One fan, one compressor, two stats, as it already has.

But if it's higher, then why shouldn't it? Plenty folk have freezers in garages here that work just fine, at any ambient temperature from +20C to -

20C.

[trader_4]

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:07:12 PM UTC-4, Undersized hippopotamus wr ote:

e:

:

sage

to cool the freezer with the compressor, then blow air from one compartment to the other to get the fridge cool. I would design this so the fan and c ompressor were independant, with seperate thermostats, but I've not noticed the fan and compressor come on individually, and a quick glance of the cir cuit diagram on the back (not for this purpose) as I was positioning it, I' m sure I remember only one stat. It wouldn't have cost much more just to a dd one stat!!

e's one in each. Yet it will still only run the compressor and fan both at once. They must be wired up a really pointless and stupid way.

Which is what I tried to tell you 30 posts ago. The ones I've seen, they regulate how much cold air moves from the freezer into the fridge to maintain the temp in the fridge secgtion. But you said the design is stupid, no good, they need two compressors, etc, etc. I still don't know what problem it is that is alleged to exist, that needs fixing.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

That's the problem, price. People don't seem to want to add 10% to the price to make things twice as good.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

Possibly, but the manual shows a diagram of the air inlets and outlets and it looks like the air is only circulated within each compartment seperately - to make it more even?

Precision temperature control in both compartments at any ambient temperature. The current system is a fudge.

[Rod Speed]

They clearly do with cars. I have been considering upgrading the car to get a decent cruise control and a fancy system of cameras in all 4 corners of the car and the door mirrors to make it more convenient to park the car in tight spots.

The Honda Civic even does full cruise control in traffic jam situations with stop start driving with the car completely automatically stop start cruising.

The Merc even parks by itself, with the driver just sitting in the car.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

It's more obvious that some are made better, but when the average moron buys a fridge freezer, they only look at things like capacity, electricity usage, etc.

I saw it mentioned here or in a forum recently that someone bought one from Argos, and they would not accept a return when it failed to run in the garage. The buyer had no idea it wouldn't, as he hadn't read the entire manual - funnily enough most people don't do that BEFORE buying the goods. Can you imagine a car that refused to start at lower temperatures?

Upgrading your car or replacing it with a better model?

So getting towards autonomous then.

[Rod Speed]

Not just made better, but do a lot more, for those who are prepared to pay more for that sort of car.

The average is irrelevant to those who buy more carefully.

Just like most don't bother to read the manual with obvious stuff like fridges and freezers.

Some do with the lowest temps like Canada gets.

Replacing it with a new one. It isnt that easy to get the best result with either automatic cameras that show you the view of the camera that is closest the adjacent car and the corresponding side of your own car auto.

Same with that very fancy cruise control that not only works fine in crawling stop start traffic, but which also reads the speed limit signs so it always goes at the speed you specify over the speed limit or at it.

Yeah, that's what the spruik with that one and the volvo. But autonomous parking is a lot easier than autonomous driving everywhere and legal whereas fully autonomous driving isnt anywhere yet.

[Ed Pawlowski]

This works well

technical info | refrigerator

what is the twin cooling system? Samsung developed the world's first Twin Cooling System in 1995 and it has been in application since. The Twin Cooling System controls the refrigerator and freezer independently with two separate evaporators and precise electronic control. This brings superior energy savings An adequate amount of cool air is provided in each compartment independent of the other. Temperature sensors and microcomputers detect which compartment needs cooling and enables the refrigerator and freezer to use power only when their respective compartments need cool air. ideal temperature and humidity preservation Because cool air in the refrigerator does not travel to the freezer, the refrigerator compartment maintains a high level of humidity. The separate evaporators allow each compartment to maintain its ideal temperature. no mixing of odors

Since cool air does not travel through the same duct to reach the two compartments, oders are isolated. conventional cooling system

[Undersized hippopotamus]

"What about" is a common enough phrase, look it up. It was simply the introduction to the sentence. The information you require is in the words thereafter.

If the general public had any sense, they'd all buy the one made by the manufacturer who made it properly, and the others would go out of business or change their ways. Beko I believe does this. Beko ought to really push advertising to state how much better theirs are. And I don't believe they cost much more either.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

Sounds sensible, except why do you need "microcomputers detect which compartment needs cooling" - why not just have two stats and some valves? No electronics necessary.

And stop adjusting the newsgroup line.

[Rod Speed]

Few of them know enough about the technical detail to do that. Most don't even buy Which? to see the technical detail spelt out.

Pity about the real world.

And the others havent gone broke or changed their ways. Funny that.

Pity about the cost of doing that.

You're wrong about that.

[Rod Speed]

But much cheaper.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

If they were made well, there wouldn't even be a dial to adjust the temperature. The unit would be calibrated at manufacture to be 5C and the freezer -18C. How difficult is it to have en electronic stat which is preset to the right temperature? It's not like a room where the occupants have a personal preference, there's a well known temperature food should be.

[Undersized hippopotamus]

On the subject of thermometers, have you noticed they're not accurate whatsoever? Take a handfull of analogue and digital thermometers or stats and put them in the same place. The readings will vary wildly (by about 5C!)