Yeah, those idiotic capitalists and all that blather about economies of
scale. Everyone should go with outfits like yours, right?
Hey, why'd you bother to leave in my comments and then ignore them?
Hiring con-artists who sell shit that isn't needed may make the price
higher, but according to you it is a value because it costs more.
What company do you work for?
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:17:49 -0500, p firstname.lastname@example.org (p_j) wrote:
Companies make less money working for HD.
HD requires them to correct ANY customer complaint regardless how frivolous.
Example: Customer complained about a piece of plastic on his roof.
It was just the peel off backing from the roofing.
It will blow off in the first good wind.
HD demanded the company send a man to remove it.
2 hours travel time later...
So most companies only sign on with HD to fill hours so they don't have to
layoff staff during slow periods.
This means that companies provide HD with their least experienced workers.
Same with Sears.
Relax its not a knock on you.
Just my dumb opinion about HD hvac in general and does not represent all
installs or installers.
Without question you could have a perfect install and i do not wish to argue
the point. You are happy
and thats what matters.
Here are some assumptions i make about budget jobs.
-Did your installer do a manual J load calc? NO
-Did he reuse part of the old line set? Yes
-Did he install a filter/drier on the lineset? Most likely.
-Did he install a new disconect? And new whip to unit? NO
-Did he pull the system down to 400 micron? NO
-Did he flow nitrogen threw the lineset as he brazed? NO
-Did he remove the valve stems before brazing? NO
-Did he charge the unit correctly? 66% no, 33% yes based on goverment
studies,(SEER takes a big whack here).
I could go on but......
Invoices should have the following info taken at startup.
Suc line temp
Liquid line temp
Wet bulb temp
Dry bulb temp
Is this info listed? Post it if you got it and i will be the first to say
you got a good install.
Hey look I'm sorry I upset you. I can only relate my real world inside the
Please see my comments inserted below.
Doubt it all you like. Home Depot low balls the price and then takes its
cut of the profit.
As you said HD was $1,000 cheaper. Nuff said on that.
Now how do you know that? You know 100% nothing on this subject.
I on the other hand happen to be in the trade.
OK thats a good thing. What extras did you get?
How can i comment on that. I can't see your system anymore than you are
qualified to evaluate the design of
your homes orignal duct work.
I'm not saying your wrong. Two ways i see it.
1. He was a unprofessional hack and your bullshit meter was right on.
2. He had training and experience.
Correcting poorly ran ductwork is not uncommon by any means. Also not
uncommen is con-artists.
Thus no comment of any value can be given.
I never said any such thing.
The one with white vans..haha
I work for my customers. Want to know how cool my customers are? My
customers bought me a new truck, paid my mortgage off and even put shoes on
my kids feet.
I love'em and take great care to see they get the very best. I'ts a
partnership I value and appreciate.
That's got to be the most idiotic response yet. I can find someone who
charges more than your outfit no doubt. Nuff said.
I think what you don't like is that it is a top rated outfit.
Are you? Who do you work for? What gives you the psychic powers to know
Removal of a fan booster. Repair of some of the cold air return. I asked
for those after the deal had been closed and the mechanical
engineer/part owner/salesperson tossed them in. How much would you
charge if i called you up and asked for those independent of an install?
Lay it out. Who are they?
What in the world makes you think that the ductwork was poorly run?
Respond to my comments, not some mythical situation that drives people
away from HD.
I guess that is a big chance hiring HVAC people. I wonder if having not
only a large commercial HVAC that has been in the community a long time
along with a large national chain is a bad idea. Or they could go with
Sure you did.
Yeah and you are so ashamed of it you won't name it.
Yep that's the heart of the issue.
But I'm just as guilty. I just paid to have a guy remove an old wood shed
and then treat my home for termites.
I picked the low bidder by half.
He was a day and a half late, did half the job and then went missing for a
His bug truck was a 80's Chevy conversion van lacking the required
contractor numbers on its side.
I got what I paid for and kinda had to laugh at myself.
What are you talking about?
Where is some sort of reasoned response to the answers I gave you. I
guess you don't like them. I have to wonder: do you make money in some
venture that HD also participates in? You sure sound like it.
p.s. the counters are great too
Doubt what you want, but unless you are a company that HomeDepot has or one
of their outsourcing guys have contacted, you wont know what the profit
margin of the company that came out was...
The techs, sigh...DONT work for Home Depot, they work for the company that
Home Depot subs to you.
You mean a nice new digital programmable thermostat? How about a new
lineset? Umm...what other extras did they throw in? Extra UV-C band unit?
Nope. Not his or mine. We pick and chose our customers, just like they pick
and chose us. Someone might want to use our services, but do WE want their
No...proper knowledge, and the time it takes to do things correctly so that
you, the consumer, have the best experece possible in ownership of your new
HVAC system is what costs more. Any company owner that is out to be here in
20 years, will indeed cost a bit more than the jackleg that is looking for
his rent payment this week.
If you knew what it took to keep a legitimate service company open for biz
365 days a year, you would understand why HD cant use the services of the
same company for long if all they do is HD installs.
I have talked to Home Depot in the past, as I was seriously considering
stocking Trane as another line. I was not going to pay THEM for the
privledge of installations for them.
Besides....the installs they are getting now, are the ones that are long
term investments for companies like mine...they are gonna break sooner, than
later, and when they do, a legitimate company will be there to resolve the
issues that were left behind that the customer didnt have a clue about.
I own one...I dont know about the guy you are responding to, but as an
owner, I can tell you that HD has no real interest other than your money. As
an owner, that wont work for HD, I can tell you that any legit company has
one thing in mind...and thats your total and complete satisfaction..meaning,
they will go farther to insure a complete and proper install. Problem is,
most homeowner never know what they get. MOST when they call, cant even tell
you the brand of unit they own, so how will they know if the unit was
installed correctly or not? I always hate the ones where the first words out
on the phone are,,, we had it installed 5 years ago by XYZ and have never
done a thing to it......sigh...and when we get there..find sludge in the
lines....and try to explain WHY its there, its harder to get them to
understand that 5 years ago, it was not installed correctly, and its never
been serviced, so, while they COULD have discovered the issue early on, they
didnt, and now its time to pay again....
Yeah, thanks for that news bulletin, but uh, still no problems...
Who do you work for?
You forgot to respond to my comment and substituted your posturing
Huh? You've confused threads. This isn't even remotely relevant to what
You mean your summer home at the lake, etcetera?
There, now I know you are talking about some other thread.
Perhaps the cost of raising your quality was the issue? Would you admit
it if it were true?
I'm trembling in fear. I'm sure Trane, a large primarily commercial HVAC
contractor and HD will all be glad when all those warranties and
guarantees are up and then poof, we'll be stuck with fast talking
What is it?
Which you don't do to make money? Wow, you'll have to explain that
Doubt all you want...HD is a third party outsource...they get theirs FIRST.
Deal with it.
That you know of.
Whats your subcool, or superheat?
Total complete charge, with lineset?
Metering device type?
IF its a fixed type, the size, and is it mated to the outdoor unit, since
you can use any air handler with any outdoor unit, provided that the
metering device is set up for the SEER, HSPF and charge?
If the lineset is over 15 feet, was it sized for the run.
Oil traps present? Do you need them? Do you know?
Like I said..what extras did they throw in? Answer the question, and then be
amazed...you might be suprised to know that if you are in good with a
supplier, that you can get a nice normally about 120$ digital stat for free
when you buy a unit.....if they threw in a UV-C band unit, you might be
surprised to know that the unit that HD sells here for $120 can be had by
any legitimate contractor, for about $45...and its a total, complete waste
of money. The REAL units run about $275, wholesale.
Who do I work for? I work for the customer....
Umm....no. I made as valid a point as you did.
You made it...you figure it out.
No...you are confusing what you said, and cant understand the answer.
I own two homes. I dont have a summer lake home...I have a home NEAR the
lake...big deal..as I am sure I paid much less for it than most did in my
area. I own a home in CA, only because my wife is from there...cant deal
with that, I am sorry..homes are a very small part of the picture of owning
a business. Its those damn $20,000+ trucks that we have to buy, and the
$30,000+ of parts, and tools that have to go into them. Of course, there is
ONE Trane dealer here that has over 100, $78,000 trucks, with over $50,000
in inventory, and tools on each one...you figure whos got the most mark-up
in his stuff.
And you have confirmed that you are a confused person.
LOL...Tranes quality isnt an issue..in fact...its not there. You fall for
that marketing scam that the toliet company sent you on eh?
I was going to get Trane, as a lower cost, lesser quality 2nd line.
Would I admit that my quality needs improving IF it did? Of course, thats
how you stay in business, by constantly improving.
Umm...no...wrongo....they are PRIMARLY a residential company that was saved
from going belly up by American Standard, who owns the Trane name, and
You want to talk commercial, then you need to look at another brand...one
thats being used in Athens for the Olympics, one that was in the Twin
Towers, used in most all federal government buildings....the Sydney Opera
House...even the Kremlin....
If I really have to tell you since all the information is there...sigh....
Hint...its not a Trane dealer, and its HVAC, res, and commercial.
LOL...no...we dont make money on every install. Sometimes, as many in my
area can tell you, we give the damn things away. Yes...Virginia, there are
companys like that. You fail to realize that I would do this for free if I
could, and the state and feds didnt have a hand out.
When was the last time that someone looked at your situation, when you were
down, and you needed something, and said, dont worry..its handled?
We do that alot in the winter months...and perhaps, just perhaps, one day,
when your old, out of cash, and your furnace quits, you can find out that
someone out here might fix it for free, regardless of the cost.
Yea..we do that.
I make enough to stay in business, I make enough to survive. I wont get
rich...and I dont care. When I am dead and gone, all I want is for someone,
somewhere here to be able to say...that was one honest fella...
Deal with that as well...since I know you dont believe it, nor can
That does not mean you got the best job. It only means you spent less. As
for the vents, maybe they should have been installed differently in the
first place. Did you get a reason why they should be re-located?
For run of the mill stuff, they are cheap. For good quality custom
installations, they are pretty much a crap shoot. Glad you are happy.
I've read too many nightmare stories of dealing with HD when problems came
up. I'd rather work with a reputable "Joe's HVAC." There are crooks in
every business, but there are also some top notch people out there.
No doubt, although I believe it was an excellent job. The outfit that
did it had the highest quality rating available by the manufacturer.
The house is nearly a hundred years old. The problem that was stated by
the higher bidder, was that the vents weren't underneath the windows and
that would result in large temperature differences. There really isn't a
significant problem like that. What he proposed to do was to cut holes
in the hardwood floors and put floor vents in. They would have to sit
about ten to twelve inches in from the wall as well because of the
foundation. Holes in the oak and maple floors, plaster walls that need
patching and painting and some serious work in the basement... for?
The same guy BSed about the cost difference between chimney and direct
vented water heaters. His company also has been advertising in a premium
spot on a top rated radio station for umpteen years.
You know, the fabricator was a big outfit in Chicago (I enjoyed the
visit) who no doubt serves many wholesale customers.
The installers did a nice job although I think its crazy to have two
guys lifting huge pieces of granite like they did (and working with some
unfriendly chemicals with bare hands). When I asked the boss about
working for HD, he said it was great because there was a steady stream
of work and the check arrived every month like clockwork unlike many
builders and GCs who string things out.
No problems here. My entire reference is the two experiences, both very
Yes, although buying HVAC as well as many trades is often difficult. The
outfit that did the HVAC is almost exclusively large commercial and has
been great. The "salesperson" had a degree in mechanical engineering and
was part owner of the company. At least according to him, part of the
reason that they could price things well was because they do a very
large volume of business and receive volume discounts from the
On 2004-05-25 22:26:31 -0400, email@example.com (liquidfly) said:
We must have two roofs replaced (both total tear-offs) and we've gotten
a lot of bids because we were getting really varied information from
different companies. HD quoted us 3X the cost of the highest bidder: a
company well known as the Cadillac of roofers in our area, (who has
been in business for over 20 years and whose kids are now beginning to
take over). As has been mentioned, other roofers would take credit
cards or finance us.
Get some bids and talk with more neighbors or friends. Also do a little
research at the BBB.
HD makes a big deal about liability insurance, etc. but any good roofer
will offer the same.
One other route is Angie's List.
How do you know that these kids that are taking over won't run the
company into the ground in a year or two. Who is going to back their
warranty on the two roofs you just bought if it's raining cats n dogs
in your master a couple years from now?? Home Depot would be there
for sure, I'm just not sure if the boys taking over their dad's
With HD you take a greater risk that something will go wrong because you
get lower quality work. The problem is almost guaranteed to be fixed, but
it's going to be a huge headache in the meantime. If you have a guy with
a good reputation, use him. If you don't know what you're doing, use HD.
This is Turtle.
Leave HD out of the picture and you can cut the cost by 20% and just call a roofing
contractor yourself for HD just gets the
CHEAPEST roofing contractor they can get and add 20% to it for their cut on the deal.
If you want the cheapest material and the
cheapest workmanship. Go HD.
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