Goodbye 100w, 75w Incandescent Lamps

[Pete C.]

Supposedly the 75% power savings prevents more mercury emissions from coal fired power plants than the mercury contained in the lamp.

[Pete C.]

I'd have to see those to believe them, unless they are the purely cosmetic kind. I've yet to see any LED source that can compare to a 400W HID source.

[salty]

light.

15 years? I've got underwear older than that! If you were really some sort of technically proficient person, you would know that it's very easy to just look up the specifications for almost all consumer electronics.

Oh, and try and find a CRT TV that is "Energy Star" listed. You won't. Meanwhile almost all LCD TV's are listed.

HAND!

[JoeSpareBedroom]

OK, then. How long do you think it's appropriate to wait before finding out that market-driven forces are not going to solve a problem? A year? 20 years? Two generations?

How long?

[Pete C.]

light.

in the

months, and

Why does this statement not surprise me?

It's easy to look up the specifications and misinterpret them. Simply looking up the nameplate Amp or Watt rating doesn't tell the whole story as it is only the peak draw and more often than not is quite different than the normal operating draw. That CRT TV may well draw the nameplate

1.2 Amps for a few milliseconds on startup, but operating is more like .4 Amps. Perform the real world measurements on your old and new TV and then see if you feel the difference is huge.

[Pete C.]

The governments purpose is to do our bidding and maintain our security and infrastructure, not to preach to us what we should be doing or to force the views of a minority on us. If the free market doesn't adopt whatever is being preached it is a clear indication that the majority simply doesn't want it.

[Jim Redelfs]

We all are, whether it is atop a house, in an attic or at a CATV provider's head-in, whether the signal emanates from atop a 1,000-ft broadcast tower or from a blob of electronics orbiting 17,500 miles above.

There are still thousands of over-the-air broadcasters that would quickly retire that aspect (a HUGE aspect) of their business were there not sufficient, operating receivers.

Operating and maintaining a powerful transmitter from atop a very high mast is a costly thing, indeed. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't making them money.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

News flash: If the government hadn't forced pollution standards, you'd still be breathing a lot more crap from automobiles than you do now. Car makers had absolutely NO incentive to tackle the problem, and consumers had no buying choices that would've helped.

You will see more examples like this, and you will agree with the solutions.

[Pete C.]

The OTA folks are making less and less money these days and are desperately trying to find a new business model that will keep them afloat. If they were not in such dire straights they would not have made such a stink over silly must-carry rules to force their signals to be carried on cable systems.

[willshak]

I have neither a plasma nor LCD TV. I do notice that the plasma TVs on display at the local stores put out a lot of heat through the vents at the back. The LCDs put out heat too, but not as much as the plasmas. I did compare both TVs with the same screen size.

[salty]

light.

sitting in the

doesn't

months, and

Because you thought you had more experience than my underwear, and now you realize that you don't?

Yes, but that's you, not me!

I still don't know what you meant when you said you were "in the video world for

15 years". Are you a sales associate at Best Buy? Or did you just mean that you don't live in the real world?

Me? My electronics education, which encompasses formal education, aprenticeship, and self study, started when televisions didn't have any transistors, and the wiring was all point to point. When Sony came out with Beta, people were coming from NYC to my store in South Norwalk Connecticut, because I had in house service. Could find that in NYC. I did the same thing when Cellular phones came on the scene. I was set up to service cellphones a year before the system went online in Connecticut. The phone company techs were bringing various phones to ME for evaluation to see how well they would work with their as yet, untested system.

I think I can figure out which TV uses more energy, thank you. :')

[Pete C.]

No, it's you.

15+ years of video production engineering, another 10+ of audio production engineering, and a lot of other technical experience in other areas.

So you're either retired now and haven't worked on anything in a decade or two, or you're working at the local grocery store after your TV and VCR business went under because everything is disposable these days (not that that's a good thing).

Either way, if you have that experience then you should have enough sense to realize that the nameplate Amp or Watt rating is not a meaningful measure of the actual operating draw.

Only if you make actual measurements.

[Dan_Musicant]

:Dan_Musicant wrote: :> Fact is you can find CF's that don't take a minute to get usable light. :> Some are nearly instant on. The only filament lamps I use at all are :> maybe a couple I haven't bothered to change that I leave on for 5-10 :> minutes at a time only. :> :> I find it grating to read posts which make fun of federal lawmakers. I :> wouldn't want to spend more than 10 minutes of every year sitting in the :> halls of congress. I know it's a madhouse, but walk a mile in their :> shoes before you paint them all with the same brush. :> :> Believe it or not, letting people do what they damn well please doesn't :> work in this country. : :You must be in the 15% that thinks congress is doing a good job. :Let the market decide.

Did I say they are doing a good job? See, that's what psychologists call "projection." If I thought they were doing a good job I wouldn't have said I wouldn't want to spend more than 10 minutes a year in their company. Sheesh.

:I use CFL's not to save the planet but because :in the long run, I save money.

I get it, like a lot of people you believe in being selfish, and worse, you ridicule people who do things for reasons other than selfish reasons.

[Dan_Musicant]

:Frank wrote: :> Dan_Musicant wrote: :> :>> Fact is you can find CF's that don't take a minute to get usable light. :>> Some are nearly instant on. The only filament lamps I use at all are :>> maybe a couple I haven't bothered to change that I leave on for 5-10 :>> minutes at a time only. :>>

:>> I find it grating to read posts which make fun of federal lawmakers. I :>> wouldn't want to spend more than 10 minutes of every year sitting in the :>> halls of congress. I know it's a madhouse, but walk a mile in their :>> shoes before you paint them all with the same brush. :>>

:>> Believe it or not, letting people do what they damn well please doesn't :>> work in this country. :> :> :> You must be in the 15% that thinks congress is doing a good job. :> Let the market decide. I use CFL's not to save the planet but because :> in the long run, I save money. : :I've often found that being a cheap bastard and being ecologically :correct are two subsets of the population with significant overlap. : :If nothing else, the philosophy of using equipment until it is well and :truly no longer usable and no longer repairable before purchasing a :replacement is one of the best things you can possibly do for the :environment. : :nate : :(cheap bastard)

Cool, Nate. I'm 100% with you there, being the same way myself. I could tell some tales, oh yeah.

[Mark]

It takes just as much water to turn the turbine

NOT TRUE wherever did you get that idea?

Mark

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Not a 100% perfect comparison, but the 19" CRT TV in our bedroom is rated a

1.2 amps while my 19" computer monitor is 55W.

[John Barry]

Nonsense- to the assertion that extracting fossil fuels faster will solve our problems. It'll just bring forward the day of reckoning what to do when it becomes unaffordable.

There's so much we can do to reduce demand and make much better use of what's in the "pipeline" and what's yet to be invented.

Consensus among many seems to be that there's no single solution. Maybe opening our minds to reasonable means to cure our coal/oil/gas addiction will help, AND provide marketable solutions for the rest of the planet.

John

[Buck Turgidson]

Consumer Reports and Popular Mechanics magazine recently revieved CFLs with color rendition and start up times, I think Popular mechanics rated HDs brand very well, at the top , every year here ComEd subsides CFLs in Nov so you only pay 1$ a bulb I got quit a few. In can lights there are some special retrofits that work well but Halogens I agree are best.

I'd love to find some recessed lighting that works with CFLs. I was at the BORG today, and all the recessed lighting used incandescents. I've almost switched to CFLs, and won't go back.

[Buck Turgidson]

If the idiot suits in Detroit can't design and market a decent car, then they should be fired.

[Pete C.]

Most of those "incandescent" recessed fixtures will accept CFLs, they have adjustable socket position to accommodate the longer CFL base. I've also seen the true CFL recessed fixtures that take the pin based CFLs and have the ballast in the fixture at Depot.