yep, that can be a bad move. since i am
reactive to poison ivy and many other plants
i have to be aware of what i'm going into and
keep covered up (then wash things well after-
here i cut poison ivy back and dig out
the roots that i can get at. it is not a
fast growing vine so manual methods will
work if you are persistent (and careful
about what you are doing).
the thing is that birds/animals will drop
seeds and you can have it return from seeds
previously dropped. so you must do status
checks once in a while to keep it from coming
i would never use salt in any area i was
planning on growing something.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:31:24 -0400, songbird wrote:
Nobody is immune.
That's not how type IV cell mediated immunity works.
There's a random element to the game, and that randomness
plays out over a lifetime.
So, those who "say" they are immune, just haven't gotten
that random card yet.
Or, they aren't confronted with *this* (which I had to cut
with a chain saw just to get to the parent vines):
Yup. You can cut and pull it out faster than it can grow.
Of course, it probably has a fifty-year head start on you.
When I cut the 3-inch vines, I keep a spray bottle of glyphosate
concentrate on my belt (45% solution) with a few drops of liquid
dish detergent added as a surfactant.
See my very short video on the subject a few years ago:
That kills from the cut down.
Yup. For heavy infestations, you can clear a hillside in a season,
but you'll spend the next ten years catching up with the sprouts.
Ask me how I know.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:17:00 -0500, Muggles wrote:
I'm with the crowd that says the best *replacement* for poison oak
is the natural foliage of the area given the climate.
I doubt salts provide all that much of a foothold for the natural
inhabitants, so, I, myself, cut, paint, and remove.
Of course, I did mention that this is a ten-year project, and I'm
only in about my fourth year - so - time will tell.
How do you keep it from getting on your skin when you're trying to take
off all the clothes you're wearing to protect your skin?? Then there's
the oil on your gloves, and how do you clean the clothes and gloves so
you can re-use them w/o getting the oil on you that way?
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:59:43 -0500, Muggles wrote:
All good questions.
You have found the real problem.
The real problem, like any problem, isn't the problem you KNOW about; it's
the problem you don't know about.
Specifically, you can't SEE urushiol on clothes except as wet spots if
you're lucky (it turns black later, after oxidizing, and, in fact, the
name urushiol comes from its use as a black lacquer in Japan).
That is, if you're unaware that your BOOTS and TOOLS and DOGS have
urushiol all over them, then, that problem is the REAL problem (not
the fact that your clothes are slathered with the stuff because you KNOW
your clothes are covered in the oily alcohol.
Actually, once you're aware, it's pretty easy; but it's the people who
aren't aware who unknowingly contaminate everything!
1. Assume EVERYTHING is grossly contaminated (because it is!)
2. Remove your boots outside, and leave them outside.
3. Remove your clothes outside, and put them in the washer.
(Contrary to the old wives tales, you can wash your wife's delicate
undies with your grossly contaminated clothes - and it won't matter.
It's probably not a good idea - but it won't matter as the stuff
washes out very easily in the wash in my experience).
For the tools and boots and gloves, what "I" do is I pretty much
ignore the boots and gloves (they just have to stay contaminated).
I just don't bring them in the house. They're leather, so, they're
hard to wash (I gave up after ruining a few pairs).
For the tools, I leave them outside as well and just hose them down
if I bother (generally I don't even bother).
The urushiol has been studied (by Epstein) to be active for 100 years
(it's just an oil so there's not much to break it down) if it's kept
safe in dendrology drawers.
However, outside, it does break down, but it could take years (five to
10 years are what I've heard the most, for dead vines). Longer if it's
dry and shorter if it's wet. But, the point is, the oil is just an oil,
so, think about it as motor oil.
How long would motor oil last if it were left outside on your tools?
Anyway, in practice, the real problem is NOT KNOWING that your tools,
gloves, dogs, and boots are covered in the stuff. Once you known it,
you just give them the respect they deserve and you keep them from
coming in the house.
Well, it's rained twice since I sprayed the vine with the hot
vinegar/salt/detergent mixture and 3 out of 4 leaves died already. One
survived and I sprayed it again this morning. The jury is still out.
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:53:03 -0500, Muggles wrote:
If you know poison oak as I do, the only real way to get rid of an
infestation is mechanical. I suspect poison ivy to be similar, when
in heavy infestations (heavy being defined as entire hillsides so thick
that you can't traverse them on foot due to the vines impeding progress
in all ways except lying on your belly and crawling through the stuff).
Machines are nice, but if you're on steep slopes, as I am, then you
crawl uphill to the source (which is easily 20 or more feet from where
you start at the end of the vines).
Once at the base, you cut and poison. The poison I use is 45% glyphosate,
with a few drops of liquid detergent mixed in, but you can use whatever
works for you.
Your clothes will be stained black from the urushiol (if your clothes
are not literally stained black, then you have never been in poison oak
or ivy of any import).
Usually you have plenty of time to deal with the stuff, so, you can
wait a few weeks before you manually pull it all out (this time you
can start from the edges).
In really heavy stuff, covering entire hillsides, I generally cut
a checkerboard pattern across the hill and up the hill, which
intersects thousands upon thousands of vines, and then I manually
clear it out about a year later.
Expect the genocide to continue for about the next ten years, as
the sprouts will grow back incessantly.
But the only hard work is in the beginning where the poison oak
is so thick that it prevents you walking through it. Once you have
tunnelled your way though it, it just gets easier year after year.
Ask me how I know.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:20:20 -0500, Muggles wrote:
I've cleaned hundreds of square yards (about 500 yards by about 500 yards) of
a hillside of the stuff. And there is plenty more to go.
Anyone who says they can 'spray' or 'salt' and win, isn't dealing with
the same numbers that I'm dealing with.
The only thing that works in the size I'm dealing with is mechanical means,
although after cutting I always paint the big vines (anything over an inch or
so in diameter) to prevent regrowth (which is inevitable until it's completely
removed - which is a ten-year effort).
They poison oak has a fifty-year head start on me, so, ten years is about
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:01:24 -0500, Muggles wrote:
It's a wives tale that the rash "spreads". It can't spread once it
has penetrated into your skin. What people "think" is spreading is
re-infection, which is EASY if you don't realize the tools, boots,
gloves, dogs, even towels have the oil on them.
Just think of it as motor oil contamination and treat it
It's impossible to mechanically remove as much poison oak as I do
and not get some oil on the skin, but, the most important trick is
to *assume* it's everywhere (i.e., between the fingers, behind the
ear, between each toe, on the back of the neck, etc.).
Once you assume it's everywhere, you cover yourself head to toe
in Dawn or Palmolive so thick in white paste that you look like a
ghost. Every inch of your body (yes, every inch) gets covered in
the white paste.
For good measure, I do that three times when I come back inside
after a day's work (anyone who can shower every 15 minutes must
work for the government, so, even though that would be optimal,
it's not gonna happen).
Suffice to say it's a nice long hot shower (anyone who says you
should showed in cold water is a fool because the more comfortable
the shower, the more likely you'll shower and it's the showering
that matters since your hair is certainly covered in the oil as
is your face and neck and wrists and ankles).
The rest of the body seems to be relatively free, although
there are times that the delicate webbing between the toes
and fingers drives me crazy before I learned to assume it's
everywhere during that most important long hot slathery shower.
Next door neighbor has 12 acres, I have 10. He has goats and horses, we
He was running out of fodder for his goats so asked if he could use my "back
lot". It's only about an acre, I don't use it so I said sure (keeps me from
periodicaly mowing it). He ran some fence, put his goats there a year ago.
Now, it is overrun with weeds; mostly dog fennel and it gets BIG. His place
is also overrun with weeds (never mows). Now I'm going to have to have him
take his goats home so we can eradicate the weeds. Maybe I should let him
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