Apropos of some recent diesel discussions, diesel fuel all by itself should
give 13% more mpgs, just from the higher btu's per gallon alone.
And, funnily enough, diesel appears to be about 13% more expensive at the
pump!!?? Conspiratorial coincidence?? lol
It also becomes clear how gasahol shoves it in the motorist a little deeper,
as well -- radically lower btu's per gallon.
Unbeknownst to most people, regular gas has more btu's/gal than high test --
by dint of the higher stability of the tertiary carbocation intermediate, in
the combustion process.... no foolin.
Texaco was successfully sued over this li'l factoid, in their false
advertising of their premium fuels. Someone at Texaco didn't pay attention
in Organic Chem I.
#6 fuel oil has markedly higher energy per gal:
The thing about #6 fuel oil is that it may need little to no fractionating
at all, radically lowering its delivered cost. Yeah, the sulfur....
But mebbe by adding another mere 500 lbs to each vehicle, they could fuck us
for a de-sulfuization unit in each car.....
Some other useful charts:
Ultimately the bottom line, from an immediate wallet pov, is the dollars per
mile req'd to operate a vehicle, or dollars per degree to heat a house..
Some of those factors are the cost to actually produce the fuel/bring it to
market, and as was alluded to by RBM, the expense of utilizing it, such as
Along these lines, Consumer Reports evaluates "the lowest cost to own over 5
years", of which fuel is just one component.
Paying big bucks up front for the privilege of burning a cheap fuel -- to
wit, electricity -- most often yields a payback that's waaay too long -- ie,
the Volt, Leaf over much less expensive traditional cars.
Recently discussed were the methane stores lying at the bottom of oceans,
3,000 years worth, they're saying. Dudn't really matter what the energy
density of a fuel is, if you can pretty much just suck it up with a straw.
Hydrogen would appear to be the, uh, Bomb, since every kitchen with a solar
cell on the window sill can produce it. Altho usefully packaging it would
be a bit, uh, volatile.
Just fuel for thought.
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:18:55 AM UTC-4, Rodwell wrote:
Because people buy gas and think that gasoline with
ethanol added performs just like gas without it.
If you add water to ham, you have to state it on the
label. Yet in this case, the govt does the opposite.
And then factor in that whatever the price of gas with
ethanol is, it's AFTER huge subsidies to the ethanol
producers. And the diversion of crops to ethanol has
doubled the price of all grains. So, when you go buy
a doughnut, loaf of bread, cereal or beef, you're paying for
that ethanol again.
On 6/27/2013 8:44 AM, email@example.com wrote:
That's right. We pay for ethanol in many other ways.
There is also a big tariff on imported ethanol mainly to keep out
Brazilian ethanol which can be made cheaper there. The whole ethanol
thing was a political sop to big agribusiness who greased the palms of
politicians on both sides to get the ethanol mandates.
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 01:16:03 -0400, "Existential Angst"
Not only de-sulfurization, but the stuff has to be heated to be
pumped. It has to be heated in the range of 250F degrees to flow and
be atomized to burn. In industrial boilers, the boilers are started
with #2 or natural gas, then some of the steam is diverted to a
pre-heat tank with heat exchanger for the oil. If you shut your car
down, it is not going to restart as the fuel injectors and lines will
be like carrying molasses.
As far as diesel vehicles go, I think at this point they have
effectively removed every reason a person would buy one. You use to pay
a boat load more for a diesel engine vehicle because the fuel mileage
was considerably better than gasoline, they had plenty of power, and
they lasted forever, not to mention that diesel was cheap.
I have a 2010 "clean diesel" van which gets 17 MPG compared to 22 MPG on
my "pre emissions" 2006 version of the same truck. This truck has a tank
of urea, which gets injected into the exhaust system, as well as a
catalytic converter, and a particulate filter, attached to a pile of
chips and sensors and exposed wires all over the engine and exhaust
system. Anything associated with the exhaust/emission system that
malfunctions and allows pollutants out the tail pipe, invokes a check
engine light and a dash board message," 20 starts rem ", which means you
have to stop what you're doing and get it to the dealer now, which in my
case the nearest dealer is in a hell hole called Yonkers (just kiddin)
All the new "clean diesels" have a 100,000 mile warranty on the
emissions systems, so at least these huge expenses don't come out of
pocket, but I sure don't want to own this thing one minute after the
warranty is up.
On Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:39:11 AM UTC-4, RBM wrote:
Except the govt still standing in the way, refusing a couple
of very small changes in the clean air standards that would
allow a lot more versions of diesel cars. I don't remember
the details, but diesels are actually slightly better with
regard to some emissions and slightly worse with another.
If the enviromnental nuts would just allow the small tradeoff,
there would be even more diesel vehicles.
But they prefer to screw around with solar electric, ethanol,
etc, which still aren't economically feasible,
You use to pay
Around here (Ontario, Canada) diesel is usually less expensive than
As of this minute, prices are:
Diesel: $1.10 CAD/Liter ($3.97 USD per-US Gallon) (0.80 Euros/liter)
Gasoline: $1.19 CAD/Liter ($4.50 USD / Gallon) (0.87 Euros/liter)
This is 87-octane gas with probably 10% ethanol.
Premium gasoline (91 or 92 octane) cost is:
$1.32 CAD/liter ($4.77 USD/gallon) (0.96 Euros/liter)
Diesel cars should be BANNED.
Or, they should force people who drive diesel cars to have to smell the
exhaust coming from their tail pipes. Feed back some of that exhaust
through a small pipe into the passenger compartment.
Hey Homo Gay, if Cannabis oil is added to the diesel, you can cure
everyone of cancer and make traffic slow down because all the other
drivers will be stoned. It would be a perfect world for you! ^_^
A guy at work has one. It has not cost him a penny for the emissions
related repairs, but they keep his trucks for days at a time trying to
figure out the problems. He finally traded it for a gas model.
The third problem I had with mine, was a faulty "diesel emission fluid"
pump. The dealership mechanics were clueless and needed help from techs
at Mercedes, which took five days. I'm afraid that they are just too
complicated and no longer reliable.
Same old deal. Every time something new comes out it is too complicated for
the dealer mechanics to repair. I bought a new car in 1972. Same basic car
as a 1969. The 69 ran fine for about 30,000 and someone ran a stop sign on
me. I then bought a 72 and it had all the smog stuff on it. The never
could fix the electronic system so it would start. That thing left me
sitting about 5 times and I had to have it towed to the dealer. Ran the
battery down several other times, but as it was a manual transmission, I was
sble to push it off. Finally traded it with about 15000 miles on it.
The stuff usually works great unless there is a problem, then you beter
trade it off as it probably will not be fixed or if it is, it may take a
Wait... wait... you bought a Mercedes and you are surprised that it is too
complicated and "no longer" reliable?
I think Mercedes invented the whole philosophy of "never use one part when
you can use ten," or maybe that was Bosch....
This is not a new thing.... Mercedes has been doing this for nearly a
hundred years now.
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
I think this stuff is just the only successful technology currently
available that meets the EPA standards for diesels. It doesn't matter
who the manufacturer is, all diesel trucks in the U.S. made after 2010
have the same stuff strapped on to them.
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