Florida stand your ground case conviction.

[trader_4]

Did you perform the autopsy? What did the MD who did say?

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The New York City medical examiner who conducted an autopsy on an unarmed black man who was killed during a 2014 arrest said at a hearing on Wednesday that a police officer’s chokehold set off a “lethal cascade” of events that ended in the man’s death.

“In my opinion, that’s a chokehold,” Dr. Floriana Persechino, the medical examiner, said after video footage of the arrest was put on pause during the hearing. She said the chokehold would have been painful and constricted Garner’s airways, triggering “a lethal cascade of events” that led to his death.

If he had simply got

Absolutely true. And if that reckless, stupid Pantaleo had not violated police dept procedure and used a banned chokehold, Garner would likely be alive.

You;re lying, I understand that the chokehold Garner used was BANNED and I provided you with testimony from the head of nyc police training that said exactly that. But feel free to dig you hole ever deeper. It's what Trump would do.

BS it was. You have ZERO evidence that the MD who performed the autopsy, the officer who head police training were influenced by politics. That is a despicable allegation to level at those PROFESSIONALS. There was at least one person here who was not professional and he got fired.

[gfretwell]

I know what they were telling the cops not to do and it was definitely the sleeper hold. This is from way more than one cop and I knew plenty of them. The deaths were because they were crushing the corotid and the brain was starving for oxygen. . Are you seriously going to say you never saw a video of a cop grabbing someone around the neck in an arrest? How else are you going to grab a guy who is bigger around than your arms reach?

You still keep ignoring the fact that this guy was resisting arrest and daring them to do anything about it

How would you have dealt with it? Just give him a cake and send him on his way?

Did you watch the same video I did? She was just standing there encouraging the cop to get this taken care of. I didn't see anyone trying to stop the way he was holding Garner. It didn't even come up until a day or two later. The neck hold is not what killed him, it was the struggle and his lousy health.

[gfretwell]

The lethal cascade was an asthma attack and cardiac arrest. A leg hold would have likely produced the same result. The politics made it homicide. I don't know why you guys pick the flimsiest cases to demonstrate police misconduct when there are plenty of unarmed people shot reaching for a wallet or cell phone. If nothing else, why was the sargent absolved of virtually all responsibility when she was in charge of the scene, 5 feet away and she did NOTHING to stop it? She didn't even lose a stripe.

[Ralph Mowery]

Now you are talking. Just shoot him and be done with it.

I have no use for those that fight against the police. Why should they get hirt ?

Too bad we can not put the jury members in the same predicumennt and see what they would do. Very easy to sit back in safety and take a week or two to decide on a case the officer has a few seconds to do.

In the 1960's there was a black police man that was known as Jim the stick. He had no problem going up against someone's head with his blackjack. When the locals saw him comming, they mostly just gave up as he had their respect.

[trader_4]

The MD that performed the autopsy says otherwise. You conveniently left out the start of the lethal cascade, the chokehold.

“In my opinion, that’s a chokehold,” Dr. Floriana Persechino, the medical examiner, said after video footage of the arrest was put on pause during the hearing. She said the chokehold would have been painful and constricted Garner’s airways, triggering “a lethal cascade of events” that led to his death.

Using a green laser pointer, Persechino explained that the autopsy photographs showed a band of ruptured blood vessels in the muscles in the front of Garner’s neck, and said they were caused by pressure from Pantaleo’s forearm. "

Just the facts.

BS. The coroner ruled it a homicide.

What "you people" are you referring to? There are some police shootings where a perp reached for something, didn't have a gun and the cops shot them. Many the police were not held responsible for, eg it's a dark alley, the perp reaches into his pants and the cop thinks he saw a gun. Most of those the cop gets the benefit of the doubt and I've supported them. Very different than Pantaleo deliberately applying a chokehold that NYC police have banned, that he knew he was not supposed to use, in broad daylight, with three other cops there assisting in taking Garner into custody. That went on for a minute or more, it was initiated by Panaleo, who should have figured out what the correct way to proceed was, he had plenty of time to do that and also plenty of time to reconsider. The cop shootings you're talking about were over in a second, it had to be a split second decision, they thought the perp had a gun and was a lethal threat. Garner had no gun, didn't reach for a gun, and presented no lethal threat. That's the difference.

I said from the beginning that probably isn't right. But there has been very little reported about exactly where she was, whether it was clear she saw what Panaleo was doing, etc. If it's clear she was close, that she saw it, then yes, she should have received more than a loss of a couple weeks vacation.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You can track back to the start of the cascade was when he fought rather than be handcuffed.

Death was preventable from both sides. Not to excuse a choke hold but you do put yourself at risk when you fight. I've never heard the police say "this guy is too tough, lets just let him go"

[trader_4]

I don't disagree. With most of the police shootings, eg where they wind up firing on some perp that they've been chasing, where it's night, where they say they saw him reaching into his pocket and thought they saw a gun, I've sided with the cops. I've said that these perps create a tense, toxic situation by resisting arrest, one that puts everyone in jeopardy. I said all along that Garner was wrong too. He paid his price, a very, very high price for his bad behavior. Now the cop finally has paid a price for his bad behavior too, he's fired.

[gfretwell]

It was still nothing but a bow to the BLM movement, pure and simple. The man died because he fought with the police and his own health issues are what killed him. A healthy person would have been fine.

"The NYPD’s top doctor determined that a chokehold was never used on Eric Garner — despite a ruling to that effect by the city medical examiner’s office — and he based it on a second video never publicly released."

A politically appointed person serving at the pleasure of a left wing police hating mayor said what she had to say. The Black supervisor in charge of the scene and standing 5 feet away got away virtually untouched in spite of her watching the whole thing and not making any attempt to stop anything the cop did.

[Ralph Mowery]

I don't see how anyone would want to be a cop now.

When the perp starts running away or starts a fight, the cop has to make a split second decission on what to do. Make the wrong one and you get fired. If the perp starts fighting back, your body ramps up to a win at any cost mode and can be difficult to control.

Then you go to court and most likely get fired or worse.

I still say that the cop should ask you to stop and put your hands behind your back. If you do, he should not be able to do anything that hirts you . If not, then your ass is his to do whatever he wants to to you. If this was the case, I bet most would comply if they knew they were going to get shot or have the crap beat out of them. Just like that black cop I mentioned a while back. In the 1960's he did not have any problem laying the black jack on the blacks and most knew him and did not give him any problems.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I wonder how his family really feels about it now that they have $5.9 million. Not to single them out, many of those that get huge settlements.

[Ralph Mowery]

Yep, many times the cop gets fired or worse and the prep or his family gets a million plus.

Lawyers get rich .

[trader_4]

Which is a good reason that cops that violate PD policy, that cause needless deaths, that bring shame and lawsuits should be fired.

[trader_4]

That's shocking and having seen you post mostly reasonable things here for years, I'm very surprised and saddened. What you just stated amounts to cops having a license to kill, to be above the law, to administering street justice to someone who has been convicted of now crime. Obviously you need to read and understand the Constitution. This isn't Russia or a banana republic.

[trader_4]

Wrong again. The MD testifying was the qualified, credible DOCTOR, a career employee in the office of the medical examiner. And you'd think that office would be among the last to be compromised by politics. De Blasio didn't appoint the medical examiner that heads the whole dept either. Following you screwy logic, then anybody that works for the federal govt, their testimony is invalid, because the govt is headed by Trump. If you have any actual data that shows the MD that performed the autopsy was incompetent or biased, I'd be happy to see it. Meanwhile I provided you with the testimony of the head of police training, who said that what Pantaleo did was a banned chokehold. He;s a cop, but I suppose he's part of some grand political conspiracy too. Couldn't be that he's just an honest cop, stating the facts, the truth. For sure he's not going to be very popular among most NYC cops, factor that in.

The Black supervisor in

If you have a cite that actually shows she watched the whole thing, I would be happy to look at it.

[gfretwell]

In the back of their minds I am sure they are happy, They expected to have him die in a pool of blood caused by one of the thugs he hung out with and they would owe money for his funeral.

[gfretwell]

I suppose you think people who fight with cops and fail to comply with lawful orders should be rewarded. Like I have said, I know a lot of cops, most from the DC Police or PG county and they run into people who want to fight them all the time. Cake is not going to work. My neighbor here was a disabled Cleveland cop who suffered an injury he took to his grave from a guy like Garner. He ended up shooting the guy but by then he was crippled for life. It is no wonder cops go to the gun so fast.

Maybe you should put on a badge and walk around Newark or Camden for a week and then get back to us.

[gfretwell]

Just look at the Wiki page "The arrest was supervised by a female African-American NYPD sergeant, Kizzy Adoni, who did not intercede.[48] Adoni was quoted in the original police report as stating, "The perpetrator's condition did not seem serious and he did not appear to get worse."[49]

A police sergeant called an ambulance and indicated that Mr. Garner was having trouble breathing, but reportedly added that he "'did not appear to be in great distress'".

and if you want me to I can probably track down the video.

I suppose I could wish that the cop who comes to save your ass would worry more about breaking some rule than saving you but I am not that kind of guy.

[trader_4]

I've never said anything at all like that. And if you read what I've posted here over the years, I've sided with the police in most of these incidents. That doesn't mean I close my eyes and deny the facts where a cop was wrong.

No shit Sherlock, I never said or implied that it would. They didn't have to give Garner cake, they just had to arrest him using the allowed methods. Three of the cops did that. One chose to ignore the dept rules, the dept training and do what he pleased. Garner died. The medical examiner says the fatal sequence was initiated by the chokehold, and it was forceful enough that she had photos of the damage it caused to his neck.

Maybe cops like Pantaleo should follow the rules. Rules that were put in place for exactly this reason, that chokeholds can be fatal. Just as there are good cops, there are some bad cops, that won't follow rules and are just itching to give somebody a good whooping, thinking like you do, that the deserve it.

[trader_4]

The above doesn't add anything to what we already agree, that a supervisor was there. What she was actually doing, did she see what P was doing, are the questions. And I've already said that if she did see it and did nothing, then she should have received more than a couple weeks of vacation dock.

Who exactly was Panteleo "saving"? There was no deadly threat there, just a guy who was refusing to be handcuffed. He had not assaulted anyone, he had not committed some violent crime. On the reality TV police shows they frequently tackle and take down suspects who are resisting and I can't recall ever seeing a chokehold used. As far as procedure goes, how dumb is it to be arresting guys like Garner, taking them into custody for selling cigarettes? Seems low level things like that could be handled with the cops just giving him a summons.

[gfretwell]

Yeah that is what you would do in a fight with a much bigger man, Pull out your rule book and be sure you were being polite. I guess you read the article where the police department doctor said this was NOT the banned choke hold. The "damage" to his neck was superficial, no collapse of the wind pipe or bone damage. The guy died from an asthma attack, followed by a heart attack. Even the ME admitted that.

I also gave you your cite about the supervisor's acquiescence in the way this was handled and she was there, not monday morning quarter backing. This was a political lynching of a cop, after the fact by an anti police mayor to appease the black community and it is not shocking that people who serve at his pleasure like the ME went along. Just because he didn't appoint her doesn't mean he can't fire her.