Florida stand your ground case conviction.

[Terry Coombs]

  Yeah , but not many will make the connection .

[Ed Pawlowski]

Thank Micky, yes it was. She was able to spend the last week at home though. Hospice people make a lot of things possible too, a big help.

[rbowman]

I tend to follow the Pentti Linkola School of Ecology. Concerned about global warming? There are about 7.7 billion causes.

[Rod Speed]

<reams of your shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>

[trader_4]

What lynching? The cop was not even charged.

The guy died from cardiac arrest

Did you read the coroner's findings? That there was bleeding in Garner's neck from the choke hold, ie it was very forceful, that the choke hold precipitated the sequence that caused his death? Sure, he had health problems, but the cop violated PD policy, rules and training, for no good reason. Garner was down, several cops were on top of him, he had no weapons, the cop did not need to violate rules. If you can't do your job, can't make arrests without violating procedures, you should not be a cop. They banned choke holds because they are potentially deadly. The cop got what he deserved and it sends a msg to other cops to follow the rules.

So what? Sometimes even BLM is partly right.

[gfretwell]

The fact that they did anything to the cop at all. This wasn't in a back alley at night, the supervisor was right there telling him to take the man down.

This was not the illegal choke hold. He would have had a collapsed corotid artery if it was. The guy died from a heart attack and he got bruised a little from a fight resisting arrest. The coroner (actually the ME) is a political appointee.

What part? The guy was fighting with the cops. Should they have bought him a cake?

[gfretwell]

<Political bullshit snipped>

How long was he supposed to be allowed to "struggle" with police before he stops the CRIME of resisting arrest?

This was a crime in progress by the biggest guy there who was not going quietly. In the end he did tho. Mission accomplished. I hope the cop finds a better job where they don't buy cake for criminals to get them in the wagon.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yeah, seems there was a very easy way to prevent this death. Comply and figure it out later. If there is one of you and two, three, or four of them, do you think you will win? Maybe he figured the cops would just say "this guy is really tough, lets just let him go".

I like watching Live PD (A & E network) on weekends. Amazing how criminals or suspects make it much more difficult that it has to be.

[rbowman]

I've known a few bottom tier criminals and they weren't very bright. Listening to their logic, or whatever you want to call it, was fascinating.

[trader_4]

So sad, yet so typical. I give you the police reasoning, the police directive to cops when the police dept BANNED chokeholds. And not just some types, as you implied, but all chokeholds, with the chief of police at the time saying, "stay away from the neck". I give you the coroner's autopsy report. Those are the very relevant facts. And you call all that "political BS". Why not just do what Trump does, call it "fake news" and cover your eyes and stick fingers in your ears?

It was pretty much over, he was down on the ground, several cops on top of him. If those cops can't subdue an unarmed perp, who's face down on the sidewalk and just wiggling around, under those conditions without violating orders, they shouldn't be cops. One of them just learned that.

Not going quietly does not give police the right to ignore dept rules use a chokehold that was banned, especially when there were several cops on him, more available, to restrain him without killing him.

No one has suggested that the cops buy cake. Only that they do their jobs, follow the orders they were given. This cop clearly did not and he got fired. What would you do if you were running a company, had strict rules for workers, eg never operate that machine with the safety guard off, never do this job with less than three people and some worker decided to disregard that, do what he pleased, and it resulted in someone's death?

[trader_4]

This happens all the time. Who knows what any of them are thinking. I would guess it's more that they are mad, think the cops are unfairly busting their chops and choose not to cooperate.

I agree. It still doesn't give a cop the right to ignore the police dept's rule that bans chokeholds. And as resisting arrest goes, what Garner was doing was at the lower end of the spectrum. He was unarmed, he didn't swing at any of the cops. He was just tussling around, making it hard for then to handcuff him. If they can't handle that, with several cops on top of him, without using a banned chokehold, they shouldn't be cops. Did you ever see a cop on one of those shows use a chokehold on someone just doing what Garner was doing, on the ground, several cops on him? I can't recall seeing a chokehold used period, maybe because they are banned in many places and most cops are more responsible.

[gfretwell]

Yeah everyone talks about him saying "I can't breathe" but with his heart condition, being grossly overweight and asthma I doubt he could breathe after walking up the steps from the subway. He was fighting with the cops for 15 minutes and that health issue was what killed him, not the fact that someone grabbed him around the neck. This isn't anywhere near the banned "choke hold" which was the old "sleeper hold" that pinched off blood flow to the brain and literally knocks you out. I suppose they could have just put a guy on each arm and leg and wait for him to die of the same heart attack but this was about to get far more serious than just one guy getting arrested and they really wanted to clear that scene before they had a riot. The supervisor told the guy who got fired to take him down and get him in the wagon, then the guy got fired for doing it. The supervisor never told him not to touch the neck and she was standing right there watching. Trader would have bought him a cake.

[gfretwell]

This was NOT the banned choke hold. They banned a sleeper hold where you block blood flow to the brain and knock the perp out. I got this straight from working cops at the time most departments implimented the ban.

He was following orders and the sargent was right there cheering him on. It is not over until he was sitting in the wagon. A crowd was assembled and this shit was ready to blow.

He died from Asthma and a bad heart. They could have just held his arms and legs and he would have died the same way.

The cop was following orders from a sargent standing there watching.

[gfretwell]

IT WASN'T the BANNED CHOKE HOLD.

[trader_4]

If you bothered to read the cite I provided, (the one you called "political BS) from the NYC police chief when they instituted the no chokehold policy, he clearly said that the ban covers ALL CHOKEHOLDS, there is no differentiation, that NONE are permitted. For people like you that won't read or listen, he added "stay away from the neck". Dealing with you at times is what it must be like dealing with Trump.

[trader_4]

Funny then that he didn't say that until the chokehold was applied.

He was fighting

That's a lie. The physical altercation lasted less than a minute. Pantaleo immediately went to the banned chokehold, didn't even try anything else, he went for his neck, took him to the ground. There were four cops there, absolutely no excuse for using the prohibited chokehold. And it was prohibited for exactly this reason, that there had been many similar incidents, with perps dying needlessly.

and that health issue was what killed

The coroner clearly testified otherwise. Did you perform the autopsy? Just like Trump, deny the facts, just make up BS.

Again, per the PD. There is no differentiation, no allowed chokehold, "stay away from the neck".

And here is the testimony of the head of police training that confirms all that:

"The NYPD’s head of training at the Police Academy testified on Tuesday that Officer Daniel Pantaleo was never trained to use a seatbelt hold, contradicting claims by the cop’s lawyer during his departmental trial for the death of Eric Garner.

After watching video evidence, Inspector Richard Dee, commanding officer of recruit training in the NYPD, said the position Pantaleo had when he wrapped his hand around Garner’s neck “meets the definition of a chokehold." Dee said Pantaleo was repeatedly instructed not to use the chokehold that led to Garner’s death as he was arrested on Staten Island on July 17, 2014."

Oh, really? That's a new one. What was going to happen? There were four cops on Garner, plus others nearby. Nothing else was happening, other than this arrest.

and they really wanted

The supervisor didn't have to tell him not to use a chokehold, that was part of his training, part of the dept policy. Should she have to tell him not to shoot him, not to kill him, too? I guess if she knew he was stupid and reckless, then maybe she should have. But he was an experienced cop. He got the minimum, which is firing. The more I look at this, the more I think he should have gone to trial and he's lucky that the grand jury didn't indict him.

[trader_4]

The head of police training in NYC, who testified under oath, says otherwise:

The NYPD’s head of training at the Police Academy testified on Tuesday that Officer Daniel Pantaleo was never trained to use a seatbelt hold, contradicting claims by the cop’s lawyer during his departmental trial for the death of Eric Garner.

After watching video evidence, Inspector Richard Dee, commanding officer of recruit training in the NYPD, said the position Pantaleo had when he wrapped his hand around Garner’s neck “meets the definition of a chokehold." Dee said Pantaleo was repeatedly instructed not to use the chokehold that led to Garner’s death as he was arrested on Staten Island on July 17, 2014. Dee added that the prohibition of chokeholds is repeatedly highlighted in training documents in bold and capitalized text. The ban is referenced in writing and in class demonstrations.

Dee said that if he was in Pantaleo’s shoes he would have waited for backup, and that Pantaleo had several alternative courses of action before wrapping his arm around Garner’s neck.

[gfretwell]

That was monday morning quarter backing by a politician covering his ass. At the time cops were saying it was the sleeper hold that was banned. It is pretty hard to take down a much larger man and not touch his neck unless you just shoot him or beat him with batons.

BTW why didn't the supervisor do anything? She was right there cheering him on.

[gfretwell]

He died from cardiac arrest brought on by asthma. If he had simply got in the f****ng wagon like the law requires when you are arrested he would be dead of something else by now.

Again you do not understand what was banned and all of the monday morning quarter backing in the world does not change that.

This was a political maneuver from DiBlasio on down to blame the cops for some criminal's stupidity.

[trader_4]

Thank you for proving that you don't even look at the facts, at the cites I provided. What I provided was from the early 90s, when the PD in NYC put in place the ban on chokeholds. For good reason, there were already a number of needless deaths, like Eric Garner, and the PD, like many PDs across the country, acted. It wasn't specific to the Garner case, it clearly wasn't Monday morning quarterbacking, because it was BEFORE the Garner incident. As for Monday morning quarterbacking, you;re the expert there.

At the time cops were saying it was the sleeper hold that was

Not with 4 trained cops. Responsible cops that follow the rules do it all the time.

That's another lie, unless you can show us evidence that she was, in fact, cheering him on. You're just like Trump, you just lie and make whatever up that helps your case, no matter how wrong it is.