Finally an alternative to incandescents?

[Vic Smith]

That's 5 degrees is just a guesstimate from me, and it's always somewhat subjective. We have ceiling fans in most the rooms where you sit or lay. Keep the AC set on 80. Sometimes we drop it to 78 when humidity is high. I'm guessing I would need 75 to get the same comfort level with no ceiling fans.

I use a 12" oscillating desk fan by my basement work area, so you don't need a ceiling fan to test comfort level with moving air. Main thing with ceiling fans is blade size and design, and motor noise. I've got cheap paddle blade ones that move air well enough, but are hummers. My sister has some nice dead quiet ones in her Florida condo, with smaller blades that move more air than mine. Shaped metal blades. Probably a big cost difference.

[Harry K]

ople think they're more comfortable when they're not.  It's psychological .  So as long as they're running when you're in the room, that's fine.  When you're not in the room, the motor is just adding heat.

As I said, doubters won't try it.

Yesterday with outside temp at 87 it got uncomfortable. Flipped on the fan almost instant comfort. Of course you can explain that by the ductwork running in basement and crawl space thus containing a fair amount of cool air at the beginning. Does not explain why it was still comfortable a couple hours latere.

Harry K

[TimR]

I think it might even work in reverse.

If there's no air movement, you may get some stratification or at least a gradient with the hot air up near the ceiling and the cool air down at the bottom where you're sitting or lying.

Mix that up with the house fan, and it should end up all the same temperature. It would be the average temperature, very likely considerably warmer than the temperature that formerly was at the lower levels where you are.

[Robert]

For both LED and CFL, the main failue mechanism is the electronics that are used to change the 120V to the higher, or lower, voltage that these lamps actually use.... The light source themselves are very long lived. The electronics are not. A power spike that an incandescent can ignore can easily wipe out the high voltage inverter in the CFL base, or the current limiting capacitor and reverse diode in the LED base.

You have to look at the entire assembly, and not just what the manufactures publishes as "lamp life"..... You will NEVER get the claimed numbers if you live in a place where there are power outages, thunderstorms, or higher temperatures....

[=]

The above is a good review of the situation. I can add that the rated life for LED bulbs is still a made-up number based upon what the marketing departments of the manufacturers feel they ought to say and the length of warranty that the company wants to (or can afford to) honor. Rated life is therefore set motr by the competitive environment, not by actual tested performance.

But when just incandescent lamps were available, the situation was not much different. Manufacturers have always been able to make incandescent bulbs last for 1000 - 5000 hours and they design their products to trade off performance against what they think they can sell. What they can't control are the user's socket conditions which might subject the lamp to high voltage, voltages surges or physical shock and vibration which can kill a filament bulb in short order. As a lamp engineer told me once, "few incandescent bulbs die a normal death where the filament evaporates until it breaks. Usually, some jolt -- physical or electrical -- takes them out early".

Tomsic

[krw]

Which means that the number is set to make them look good, not as any measure of reality. Added to this is the life of the LEDs themselves are reasonably well known AT SOME TEMPERATURE. *IFF* the manufacturer did their job in designing the heat sink, it may even mean something. How do you know?

Sure, but that's normal design and all well known. IME, incandescent bulbs last much longer, in most fixtures (some are bulb eaters), than the ratings. Comparing different technologies, and in particular how they will respond in different applications, is worse than apples and orangutans.

[Robert]

I am what one would call a "frugalista", and a retired engineer to boot. In my mancave, in the summer, I put in the 9W CFLs to cut down on the air condx load. In the winter I put in

100w incandescents to normalize out the load on the electric space heater... In the summer, the light is free, in the winter, the extra heat is free. I probably save 2 or 3 dollars a year. But, just the feeling that I am taking advantages of the two technologies, makes it something I want to do....

I am a BIG fan of LED light sources. Up to now, the cost tradeoff doesn't make it attractive for me for house lighting. For flashlights, camp lanterns, emergency lighting --- I am enthusiastic about it..... Some day, maybe not too far off, they will be mass produced in a way to make them more cost effective..... I'll be one of the first in line for the conversion.... but not today.

[gfretwell]

There is an article in Time saying that just when it looked like incandescently were dead, they are coming out with more efficient ones that meet the guv'mint standard.

[=]

That's right. A company called ADLT has what they call a "2X Lamp" which is a halogen incandescent but with substantially increased efficiency such that it draws 50 watts but gives the output of a standard 100 watt bulb I think it's rated for 1500 hours life, but I haven't seen a price or found a retailer.

It sounds like a good idea, but I'm wondering if the LED train now has so much momentum that consumers won't consider anything else when they think high efficiency.

Tomsic

[krw]

I retired, too, (and have the pension to prove it ;) but decided it wasn't for me (yet). Design is too much fun. As an engineer, I understand how to make economic decisions. The most expensive initial expense isn't usually the best (economic) choice. I also know ugly. CFLs are *ugly*.

I turn lights off. Saves even more.

Not free, but cheaper.

Perhaps. I'd save nothing by replacing my incandescents with CFLs. I hate them where I have them but they do save something.

I have never seen an LED flashlight I like. I have a couple that have LED + tungsten. I never use the LEDs.

Perhaps. I still don't like the light and it's impossible to know what you're really buying. Choice is good.