wrote: >>> It doesn't take much planning to avoid such situations.
That is your mistaken ass.umption, troll.
The bike's range was about 150 miles and I had ~30 left, plenty to
look for gas in town but not enough to risk finding any on the highway
late on Sunday night. I've always recorded every gas purchase and
tracked the MPG and remaining range.
I'm just warning not to assume the tourist areas you visit will have
the same 24-hour service as the more densely populated place you live.
On 02-25-2013 01:26, email@example.com wrote:
You're missing the point. You are paying for the ability to brag about
how much money you're saving and how green you are.
I beat the system though. I put my 35-year-old bicycle back in service
and I can brag about both with no costs other than the replacement of
parts that resented coming out of retirement.
If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage.
That must be a European thing, simply by the number of out of state
tags I see, I can guarantee a lot of Americans drive to their vacation
Even the average weekend trip will exceed the one way range of an
electric. It is not unusual that I drive 150 miles one way to play
golf and go fishing. I can drive 600 miles and still be in the same
state When our daughter was going to college in Pensacola that was a
fairly regular trip.Electrics and the interstate highway system do not
really mix. What is the range at 80 MPH?
That is part of the problem. Interstates are the backbone of our road
system. Even the "two lane blacktop" around here is 55-60 MPH and if
you are not doing close to 70, little old ladies pass you waving the
finger. If I have to stay on a <35mph road, I get about 1.3 miles
before I have to turn around and I still have not passed a store.
That is why a street legal golf cart is useless to me. I have a cart,
no tags, that I use to drive around the neighborhood looking for the
dog and as a tractor to drag tree trimmings to the curb.
When I ran the numbers for a pure electric conversion to my old Honda
I couldn't make the cost benefit work. Just the batteries alone would
be over $1000, last about 4 years and at $4 a gallon, my short trips
don't use that much gas. On the longer trips, I still needed another
I can come up with scenarios where it would be great (a 20 mile
commute every day) but for a retired guy who just goes to the store a
few times a week (maybe 30 miles a week total) it is not a real
option, particularly when you take longer trips that would require
The price of a Volt puts it totally out of the running. Car and Driver
ran the numbers and said the Cruze was a better deal. I agree the
government bribe may shade that a little but the real cost is just
being foisted off on the people who don't buy a Volt. If everyone
bought one, the rebate simply moves from your car payment to your tax
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:24:06 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Better deal? Does that mean everybody should buy the one car that Car
and Driver says is a "better deal?"
+20,000 Volts were sold last year. According to Forbes, the Volt "is
outselling about half of all cars marketed in the U.S."
So your "totally out of the running" is a personal opinion.
The all-electric Nissan Leaf gets more preference with government
incentives than the Volt.
And you probably meant to say "federal and state government bribes."
Many states are kicking in.
I noticed a guy in the Volt forum said he got a $6k tax credit from
Colorado to add to the $7.5k from the fed.
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:04:03 -0600, Vic Smith
That doesn't mean that it makes economic sense to buy a Volt. It only
means that a lot of people buy one. IMO the mass mentality of the
Amerikan public is not a sterling recommendation for anything; and
their conspicuous consumption lifestyle proves it to me.
So the poor are subsidizing the rich. That sounds right, at least the
way it works here. They also subsidize the people who can afford
$50,000 solar PV arrays.
I am surprised the big business republicans are not really pushing
this. but maybe they are.
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:45:43 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
Well, remember that the lower 47% income folks don't pay fed income
Don't know how it works with state income taxes.
The big subsidies come from the 47% being paid low wages and being
charged high prices.
I mean, the rich get their money from somewhere. I just call it
trickle up. It's always been that way.
Like how white cars and blacks handle the sun.
The problem with that thinking is that these subsidies are actually
coming from the income tax code. The 47% are not going to be able to
exploit it unless they have the money to start with. You get it back
In Florida we don't have income tax so the Florida solar subsidy comes
from everyone but you still have to front up the money and get it back
later. Joke's on them. There are tens of thousands of people, still
waiting for the money. The program is broke,
It makes you wonder how many people lost their house because they
borrowed that money with an equity loan, expecting to get it back in a
month or so.
Personally I think taxes are supposed to raise revenue, not to
incentivise public behavior so I am against all subsidies that are
coming from the tax code. The current term for that is "loop hole",
unless you are getting it.
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 02:10:19 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
It's not "thinking" at all, just fact. Of course the 47% can't take
advantage. By the time prices come down enough for them to afford
Volts and solar arrays on their homes - if ever - the subsidies won't
be necessary, and won't exist.
I'm talking about the low-income part of the 47%, not these folks.
The average Volt buyer has about $170k annual household income.
So I think we agree.
Tax structures have been designed to influence public behavior for
ages. 401k contribution exemption to encourage people to feed Wall
Street, low cap gains taxes, etc., etc.
Subsidies to encourage this or that behavior. It nearly always works
too when they hand the money out.
I recall you went for that cash-for-clunker deal, right?
It doesn't even have to make financial sense, just help it along.
Like folks buying stuff they have no real use for, because "it's a
steal." Happens all the time.
Not all the subsidies come from income taxes. For example, here in
NJ, the state subsidizes solar electric
with a tax levied on all electric bills. They also further
burden utilities by mandating that an ever increasing
amount of their electric supply come from renewable.
That adds a huge cost to the utility that gets spread
over everyone's electric bill, rich or poor.
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