Dishwashing tablets

[mm]

1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3 brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"? And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2 colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are better. Anyone know?

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[Lady]

I have always considered the "main" dishwasher compartment to be the one with the cover, which dispenses second. The first one (the uncovered one) I believe to be the pre-rinse.

[Al Bundy]

"Lady" wrote in news:rEnfh.5153$bj5.4496@trnddc07:

Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if you have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe next time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing clothes and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

[AZ Nomad]

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.

[mm]

That sounds fair to me. From my pov, the cover makes it look more important, "main".

Fair enough also. But have you realized that since, with powders, it is intended that one put soap in both cups, meaning that it is intended that there be washing with detergent in both cycles. And by putting the electrosol in the cup that is covered during the first cycle, there is very little cleaning then, not like with detergent as was intended.

It's pretty clear to me that, to get the full cleaning effect intended one must put the tablet in the *uncovered* cup, or into the bottom of the dishwasher, where it will fall as soon as one shuts the door.

Now I recall that I called their 800 number years ago to inform them that their instructions were ambiguous and likely misinterpreted by half or more of those who used the product. I actually forget how the conversaation went, but that's when they sent me the coupons for the big cylinder of tablets, and a box of two plastic thimbles with spot preventer.

So here it is at least 4 years later, and they are still ambiguous. I thought they would change things after I called, and maybe they did. IIRC they didn't even use the word "main" 4+ years ago, and maybe they added the word main, but that doesn't help since no one knows which is the main one.

Cascade, which didn't make tablets last time I read the Electrosol instructions, and the house brand, also use the term "main".

Well, good to know. Thanks. I'll look harder next time, but I've already opened the Food Lion box, which only has one color material.

I always wonder if there is difference in effectiveness or quality or taste with house brands, in a lot brands, in a lot of products.

I have noticed that canned vegetables seem to have more stems or whatever that are not very edible, than name brand vegetables, corn at least.

[John Gilmer]

Maybe so; but that's not what the instructions say to do.

I pick up a package of those tablets to keep around: they don't take much space and they are insurance when I run out of the cheap powder I usually use. (God bless Dollar General).

For my dishes and pans I get the best results by using the extra long "Pre-Wash" cycle on my machine. It's the equivalent of soaking the dishes in detergent water for 20 or more minutes. With the tablets there would not be any detergent in that first, long cycle.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

AIUI, the "main" cup is the one from which detergent is released for the "wash" phase, rather than the one from which detergent is released for the "pre-wash" phase. The cup for the pre-wash phase may be smaller than the other; it may not have a cover at all; or it may have a cover with holes in it.

I have never used dishwashing tablets, as I see no convenient way of adjusting the amount of the product to take account of water hardness or the size of the load or the condition of the dishes (Were they rinsed? Were they left sitting out overnight? How dirty are they?). The instructions for our new dishwasher suggest a wide range of (powdered) detergent quantity for each cup, depending on how dirty things are and how hard the water is.

Perce

[DerbyDad03]

I have always consider the "miain cup" to be the covered one that opens during the wash cycle. For this reason, I only use the free sample tablets when I am out of powder. However, you raise an interesting point - if the tablet falls to the bottom as soon as the door is shut, then there should be some detergent to use during the pre-wash cycle. Now I'll need to do a test to see if there is actually any of the tablet left after the pre-wash cycle if I use the open cup. If so, then that ay be the correct place to put it. If not, then we have two choices: no detergent during pre-wash or no detergent during main wash.

As noted earlier, I basically do the same thing except I don't buy them. I just use the fre samples and I always seem to have a couple lying around.

Please explain this further. I think calling it "equivalent of soaking the dishes in detergent water for 20 or more minutes." might be a bit of an exaggeration. I don't know what your dishwasher does during this cycle, but I can't imagine that spraying them for any length of time would do as good a job as immersing them in detergent water for 20 minutes. Soaking is much more powerful than even a constant, lengthy rinse.

Slightly OT - We transfer our powder detergent into a plastic juice container - one of the kinds with a handle and a top with a slotted spout. We find that we have much more control when pouring the detergent, especially when we buy the extra extra large boxes of powder.

[John Gilmer]

Well, the dishes (and pans) are kept WET for the entire length of the cycle and there is a little mechanical action as well. I believe if anything it's BETTER than just soaking them in detergent water. The only difference is than when you fill a baking dish with detergent water you tend to be a little heavy handed with the detergent. But you can be "heavy handed" with the dishwashing detergent too (that's why I stick with the $2/big box stuff from Dollar General or clone.)

You can say that but it doesn't make sense. With a still water "soak," the water next to the soil gets loaded up and you have to depend upon diffusion to bring in fresh solution and take out the grease/oil soil. With a spray, you are continually replacing the loaded up solution with "fresh."

You can, however, "soak" overnight. I'm limited to about 20/25/30 minutes (never actually timed it) with the dishwasher.

Well, since I want to be a little heavy handed with the stuff and since I fill both cups at the same time, I don't worry about "control."

>

[trader4]

As I recall, all the dishwasher instructions I have read indicate that the main detergent goes into the covered dispenser, where it will be released for the main wash cycles. The uncovered cup is for optional additional detergent for the first cycle, to be used if dishes are extra dirty. If you only put detergent there, it will likely be gone before the main washing cycles. Plus, at least on some DW, the second one is smaller than the main.

As far as merits of tablets, powder, etc, Consumer Reports testing concluded that the main difference with the ones that did the best job was that they all contained enzymes.

[Godof7s]

Dear Dirty Dad03,

John Gilmer (if he's not woman, should be) is absolutely correct.

The new dishwashers run 2 - 3 hours depending on the features. I love heavy wash, sanitize, extra hot water, extra soak, etc. You paid for those features, USE THEM.

I use only powder (or gel) because of those extra cycles. My dishes look better than new, but I invest the time each washing.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

[Al Bundy]

AZ Nomad wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Not sure if I buy into that. When I had a septic in a house I was the original owner in and had the tank pumped, the septic guy showed me the crystals at the inlet pipe. I had a large fish tank and that required me to test the water for PH, total alkalinity and hardness. Nothing needed very much adjustment when doing water changes over the many years I had the tank.

We all have our belief systems :-) Thanks for the reply.

[mm]

I would but my washer is 27 years old and has two washes and a rinse, iirc, and then drying, which has a switch so one can turn off the heat during drying. So if I'm there, I open it up after the rinse so it will dry faster with fresh air, while the dishes and water are still hot.

Total of about 45 minutes, without drying.

The machine has never broken, except once when the thin chicken bone** next to the drumstick got caught in the antisiphon device (I still don't know why that kept it from draining the washer, but the moment I removed the bone, the thing worked again. (I had spent maybe 90 minutes to 2 hours checking the pump and all the the other hoses.

**I don't pre-wash the dishes, and that's on purpose. But I don't even take off all the food and that's probably laziness. :) Still, only one problem in 23 years***, 2 hours to fix, I think I'm ahead of the game.

***Another guy owned the house the first 4 years)

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[mm]

Well, mine are the same size. In a way the "main" one (You've convinced me, plus I looked at the package again, which shows a picture of one with a rotating cover for the main one), in a way the main one is smaller, because I can fill the one with no cover to overflowing, but I have to remove soap sometimes in order to close the Main one.

It looks like I've been doing things wrong. I was confused becuase the Electrosol are two colors, and I figured they wouldn't degrade performance from the original, so some soap came off in the first wash and some in the second. But if it doesn't work that way, and I'll check too eventually, I'm going to put two tablets in.

Once when I first got here, I don't think I had any stuff, so I used powdered laundry detergent, in both cups. I also left the house. Just like an I Love Lucy episode, the kitchen was covered with bubbles when I got home. In some places 8 inches of bubbles.

I didn't really believe there were enzymes in this or laundry soap, until I heard stories of workers getting sick, or risking getting sick. :)

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[mm]

There is always someone in these arguments who has facts. I hate that.

Well, I guess as long as it's not the government interfering with someone's beliefs, maybe it's ok.

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[aspasia]

Duh? You hadn't noticed what the Bushies were doing for the last six years?

For just ONE example out of thousands: They give our tax money to Jesus freaks who run programs in prison that give luxurious privileges to inmates who sign up for their belief system.

[Al Bundy]

mm wrote in news: [e-mail]:

LOL! As Gilda uses to say, "It just goes to show ya. It's always sum'tin."

Always possible the septic guy was full of shit ;-)

[Wayne Boatwright]

Oh pshaw, on Mon 11 Dec 2006 05:01:44p, mm meant to say...

All dishwasher detergents that come in tablets or gel-pacs are recommended to be placed in the "main" detergent cup, which is the one that is covered. The open cup is for a "pre-wash" cycle, which is a relatively short cycle at the beginning of the wash.

For years I used powedered deterent, either Electrasol or Cascade. However, when we moved to another location where the water chemistry was much different, I began getting some bad deposits on everything I washed.

I switched to the Electrasol tablets and have found it to give a creditable wash, but sometimes found that there was a bit of an oily residue left on the dishes. In other words, not "squeaky clean". I attribute that to the lack of detergent in the pre-wash cycle, which would dissolve most of the greasy stuff on the dishes and drain it away before the main wash kicked in.

Someone recommended trying a bottled gel made by Palmolive to use in both the pre-wash and main cups. Since it contains baking soda, I found that it left a whitish residue (from the baking soda, no doubt), and that wasn't acceptable.

The next time I bought detergent they were temporarily out of the solid tables of Electrasol so I bought the Electrasol gel-pacs instead. They worked just as well as the solid tablets, but still didn't leave things speaky clean.

Since I had most of a bottle of the Palmolive still left, I tried filling the open cup about 1/4-1/2 full of the Palmolive and using a gel-pac in the main wash. Now I get absolutely spotless and squeaky clean dishes. I will continue this method.

[SJF]

On my 8 -- 10 year old GE dishwasher "Main detergent cup for all wash cycles" is embossed in the plastic door liner with an arrow pointing at the detergent recess with a cover.

SJF

[mm]

I may just be confusing my dishwasher with my clothes washer, but I thought in my 27-year-old machine, the first cycle was as long as the second. I'll have to do another load, or at least look at the knob. Soon.

DAng. I have long depended on my dishes for squeaking.

I attribute that to the

Wow.

Although I could go straight to this method and probably get the results you did, that is not my style. I will have to examine all facets of the process, and then maybe do what you are doing. I'm not being funny. I only fill the washer about once a week, so the required study will take a long time. I'll try to get back to you all.

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