Did they change treated lumber AGAIN?

Jim

Hg is not ACQ so has no bearing on the subject under discussion.

As I now recollect, you're the one we went around with on this same subject only a few months ago. You couldn't come up with any health risks/problems then, and I doubt you can now. The end result is a proverbial tempest in a teapot with an extreme overreaction by the government over an emotionally driven as opposed to real problem.

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Sorry. I meant arsenic, and the information came from my son's pediatrician. If you'd like, I can email him and find out the source which contained all the lies about ARSENIC in children's blood.

One step at a time - do you believe arsenic is harmless?

All I've asked for is any refereed reference to epidemiology indicating ACQ was the root cause for a health problem in the general population of people using the results of facilities constructed w/ ACQ-treated lumber.

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I can't give that to you. My information came from a recommendation from a pediatrician who mentioned the subject because HE had seen data indicating arsenic in kids who'd spent time in contact with playground structures built with treated lumber. This conversation took place 1994-1995. This is all the information I can give you right now.

Now, we're going to talk in circles because I'm going to ask you again what would be required in order to show health problems as a result of exposure.

Ready?

What would need to happen?

In the ground? Yes. In building materials? Yes. Ingested by humans? Depends on the level.

Before you get your knickers in a twist about arsenic, you should go after something much more dangerous:

THE INVISIBLE KILLER: Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and _kills_ uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.

DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE: * Is also known as hydric acid, and is a major component of acid rain. * contributes to the greenhouse effect. * may cause severe burns. * accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals. * may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes. * has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

Arsenic is NOT dangerous per se. It is a scare-word designed to invoke fear and stoke the fires of irrationality.

Arsenic IS dangerous in the appropriate concentrations. So is water. So is bleach. So is traffic!

No one, so far as I can tell, has ever died or gotten sick from treated lumber. A LOT of people, however, have had sleepless nights and had to go on tranquilizers from worrying about it. The reason there are a LOT of people wringing their hands over the subject is a statement like "all smart poeple... know that arsenic (sic) is dangerous."

zzzzzzzzzzz...........

According to :

According to an article I read not too long ago, there are approximately 5 competing technologies. ACQ just being the most common one on the market - it eats fasteners.

There's at least one more type that's fairly common, depending on where you are.

The rest, at the time, were either still in development and/or very limited distribution.

They had different characteristics, including some that didn't eat fasteners like ACQ does.

May be that the batch you bought from was the "other kind". Or they were just confused.

The labels should help.

You're unaware of the fact that dangerous levels are often reached slowly, and because it's rare, most doctors don't know what to look for nowadays.

Tell ya what: You experiment with arsenic on YOUR kids. Let us know how that goes, Clevis.

According to JoeSpareBedroom :

This is getting really silly. You're not talking about the same thing.

There is no arsenic in ACQ. ACQ wasn't around (much) in 1994/95.

There is arsenic in CCA. CCA is the treatment that has been "discouraged", and what your pediatrician was talking about.

Now, figure out between yourselves which one you were really talking about ;-)

A report from a pathologist citing Arsenic posioning from treated lumber as the cause of death.

Any recollection from a pediatrician is garbage. They are more "socially aware" than librarians in promulgating absurd and agenda-driven (i.e., no scientific basis) ideas.

For example:

Take NOTHING a pediatrician says at face value. Reliance on same as authorative has as much credence as crop-circle conjecture.

According to HeyBub :

There seems to be adequate evidence that people _have_ gotten harmed by CCA lumber. But this isn't playground/back deck/cottage dock etc contact.

This is people who routinely burn CCA (despite everything telling you _not_ to burn CCA) or have long term exposure to copious quantities of CCA sawdust without any precautions whatsoever.

The latter is a hazard with untreated cedar too.

I agree it's overblown. But it isn't a complete myth.

I'm referring to the older version, and waiting for him to catch up. He keeps asking about ACQ. You'd think the word "arsenic" would cause him to step backward through the messages and see what's what.

The question was not directed at you, Clevis. But, as long as you've been activated, tell me about some of the honorable professions in YOUR family. You, your wife, kids, grandkids, etc.

According to zxcvbob :

As contrary sample, my sister-in-law's ACQ deck had railing spindles randomly falling off in less than 3 years because the screws had rotted through. These are those yellow colored ones, not bare "brights", so they should have _some_ protection.

Weather and other individual details are going to matter.

Clevis thinks the old type of treated lumber should've been kept on the market until children actually got sick and they became "data".

According to JoeSpareBedroom :

Is a metal pin. You seem confused.

We've had several generations of children grow up with that stuff, and not get sick.

There's actually more proof that cedar lumber can harm you (including my own personal experiences). OSHA rates it as a carcinogen and sensitizer.

Should we ban cedar too?

Yeah, I inadvertently used the ACQ initial when I meant CCA earlier. Same difference to Joe, though... :)

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