Did they change treated lumber AGAIN?

[alvinamorey]

I know that awhile back they removed the arsenic from treated lumber and the new lumber was almost all copper treated. I read that this new variety was extremely destructive to nails and screws, and one had to use expensive stainless steel fastners. I just bought some treated

2x6s for a small deck and asked the store clerk what fastners to use. He said just common nails or screws would work. I told him what I had read about the new variety of treated wood, when he told me the lumber I am buying is not corrosive. This was at a big box home center, and although this guy is the store manager, not just some 20 year old kid, I had my doubts about his advice.

I went to another local lumberyard, which is strictly only a lumber yard and told the guy I wanted fastners that dont corrode from the new treated lumber. He told me that if I bought it in the past month or so, I could likely just use common fastners. I asked why "in the last month". He said they changed the formula AGAIN. He could not tell me much more but said this recently occurred.

OK, now I have 2 guys who said this.....

What's the deal? How did they change this lumber? What can I use now for fastners?

Thanks Alvin

[ransley]

Its amazing that stores dont know what they sell, and that your deck or whatever can fail eventualy from the fasteners failing, if you use the wrong ones. Your wood should have tags stapled on the ends or contact the store where you purchased it and then the manufacturer. But the store should get you the right answer. I think stainless is fine or the screws treated for decks, but I dont know. In 10-20 years we will likely have porches falling down killing people from fasteners failing. You would think stores would have this issue noted with signs so they are not liable when decks fail from people using the wrong products.

[alvinamorey]

I completely agree. I will have to look at the label. Then I will likely use galv. nails and add a few stainless screws too. I presonally can not stand using screws to build framing. How in the hell can one person hold the pieces of lumber in place, hold the screw and hold a clumbsy screw gun all at once. I have been building with nails for 40 years, and am not going to change now. The whole thing with this treated lumber irks me to no end. What we had worked just fine. Now we got more government scares to ruin what worked. I dont believe this new treated wood is as good as the old stuff was, then we may have failing decks and stuff, (like you said) and who knows what else, not to mention that the tr. lumber is more costly, and at $10 a lb for stainless screws, that's outrageous. First we had the asbestos scare, then radon, now treated wood. I wonder what will be next. Are they going to say that coffee causes cancer too? Oh wait, they already did that....

The REAL #1 cause of cancer is politicians !!!!!

By the way, are those gold colored coated screws supposed to be safe for the new treated wood? I may consider screwing the deck boards. That I dont mind as much, even if my hammer is faster. But for framing, there is no way. I wonder if they make stainless nails?

[Jack]

My two cents worth. I was in the lumber treating business for a period of ten years ,70-80. The best long treatment back then was Penta, but then the EPA decided it was to toxic to use. Since, they have came up with different formulas. Really, I don't think any are worth their cost. a good coat of paint is your best protection.

[dpb]

[e-mail] wrote: ...

...

The color isn't necessarily important, read the information on the box for what they are and for what they're intended.

Of course there are SS fasteners of any almost any variety one wants.

On the general question, won't say there isn't something that has been introduced recently, but I do not believe there has been a general industry-wide shift to new process or anything mandated by EPA other than the ban/restrictions on CCA for residential/deck use.

[dadiOH]

About the same way one holds the lumber, nail and hammer :)

[ransley]

There is cheap galvanised and the good stuff that might work, look into it before you buy. I believe the cheap galvanised will fail eventualy.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Whattya mean by "what we had"? Are you referring to the older types of treated lumber?

[ransley]

There is cheap galvanised and the good stuff that might work, look into it before you buy. I believe the cheap galvanised will fail eventualy.

[alvinamorey]

YES

[JoeSpareBedroom]

OK. Well, it worked fine in mechanical terms, but unfortunately, stupid people used it in places where kids would come into direct contact with it often. Since nobody can control what stupid people do, the only option was to change the product.

[Eric]

Or just accept the fact that sometimes people do stupid things!

But apparently that's not an option these days.

Eric Law

the product.

>

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Fine, but I don't think little kids should be the victims of stupid adults who use treated lumber to build playground equipment, deck railings and picnic tables.

[dpb]

But there was little if any documented evidence of there being any injury owing to the treatment. I've done a fairly extensive search and found no epidemiology indicating any problems from playground equipment, decks, etc., causing any adverse affects...

The reaction seemed to be way overblown in consideration of the problem.

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

Precautions are sometimes good. All smart people notice that kids put their hands in their mouths. And, all smart observant people noticed (in the past, and maybe now) that treated lumber was sometimes still slightly moist. Finally, all smart people and doctors know that arsenic is dangerous.

[dpb]

But, if it (ACQ-treated lumber) were so dangerous, given the ubiquitous nature of its usage for 20+ years and the millions of children putting their hands in their mouths, if there were a significant health risk wouldn't you expect to find at least _one_ documented case? AFAICT, there is a single one.

--

[dpb]

That, of course was supposed to be AFAICT, there is _NOT_ a single one.

[zxcvbob]

I used some of that new corrosive green-treated lumber to build some raised beds in my garden a few years ago. I used 16d bright common nails in a nail gun to fasten them. They haven't failed yet. I'm gonna knock one of the beds apart soon to see if there's any significant corrosion.

The problem might be poorly-galvanized fasteners. (Challenge: just try to find any hot dipped galvanized roofing nails)

Bob

[cln]

I wasn't aware of a new Pressure Treated(PT) lumber, but as a former salesman of fasteners we had to label our boxes with the ACQ (or CCA) approval. There was a mention of using Yellow screws. I would not recommend them for exterior use but then again our brand wasn't meant to be used outside. Our competitors had a yellow screw and they said it was PT approved but I wouldn't trust my nieces on that swing set!

This PT that is corrosive to some metals was used in Europe and later banned because of other products used to make ACQ/CCA treated wood.

Here is a list of manufacturers that are ACQ approved:

is a clip from that PDF: "Fasteners for pressure-preservative treated wood shall be of hot- dipped galvanized steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper...." Our product (national manu.) was not hot dipped or SS, but did have a epoxy (not ceramic) coating on it. The epoxy was better than the ceramic. Our competitor apparently had the ceramic fasteners approved but they are not listed on the pdf list above. Yes Stainless is the best, but wow $$.

SO, if you are using PT use the proper fasteners for the wood you are using. At least use exterior wood screws in wet/damp conditions.

Nails, well... fill your boots, if you are using twisted ardox nails... as long as they are hot dipped and not just common you are fine. I used common ardox this summer and they started to rust. Because the nails were shipped to the location and the slip said they were galv. I figured that they were... i now have nice rusty lines on the framing of my deck. (Luckily I was able to hide them all with trim and added a #10 screw here and there just in case)

If the guy at the store doesn't know, ask for the buyer. Only the buyer knows (should) what lumber was ordered. Don't trust the guy that doesn't know the difference between hot dipped galv and electro galv.

PT is still not 100% guaranteed to not rot. Like another post said, use plain wood and paint/stain. Eventually you will still have to re- treat your PT wood. PT might outlast the plain/natural wood but i probably won't be there to see it as long as i stain or paint!

cln (to avoid hammering your thumb, use both hands on the hammer)

[DerbyDad03]

re: How in the hell can one person hold the pieces of lumber in place, hold the screw and hold a clumbsy screw gun all at once.

I do it all the time with these:

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