Deadly Convenience: Keyless Cars and Their Carbon Monoxide Toll
From the alt-far left so you can believe...
On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 1:21:12 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
That's a part that the NYT didn't address, how the car winds up running
AND the garage door is shut. Even with a very quiet car, no way you
would not know it's running here and be able to push the garage door
button to close it. I would agree coming up with some ways of trying
to prevent this is a good idea, but I think you have to be drunk or
senile or something to wind up with the car running and the garage
Also, in that piece, the son of one of the victims said that Pepsi cans
inside the garage had exploded because of the CO? What's up with
that? How could CO possibly cause soda cans to explode? Makes no sense.
On Sun, 13 May 2018 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
If you have the radio going, you can't really hear the car running and
since you are not turning a key and taking it with you, someone can
forget to turn it off. My FIL did it once with his cadillac and he did
not really figure it out until the CO detector (I made him install),
went off. He said he was in his car, talking on the phone (in dash)
and something on that call had him thinking about something in the
house. He went in to do that, hit the GDO on the way in and 15 minutes
later the alarm went off.
I pointed out later that you can still use the radio and phone with
the car off until you open the driver side door. Unfortunately there
was a software problem in his older model caddy that did not turn
everything off. It killed the battery so he tried not to use that
Quiet as cars are today, I can see it happening. You frive into the
garage, hit the button for the door and don't hit the ignition shut off.
My car emits long beep if I leave the car running, but it is
possible, since the car in in the garage, to just leave the key in the
car so no signal.
There are a few easy fixes. First, the car should emit a signal when
the fob leave and car is running
There should be a shut down of the engine if the fob is not present for
say, 10 minutes.
Building code for attached garage should be a CO detector with an alarm
in the house. Interconnected alarms or ones that send a signal to your
phone would work. They already exist.
Yes, old age is a part of it, but a little confusion can do it too. A 45
year old woman at work parked her car and dropped a package or something
and she left the car running, key in ignition. At least it was warmed
up when she left 9 hours later.
On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 2:30:56 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Are you suggesting people hit the garage door button via the remote
in the car? If so, there's a big part of the problem. That is poor
practice. If you're using the remote in the car to open and close
the garage door when the car's inside the garage, I'd think you'd
smash up a few garage doors long before you got around to gassing yourself.
Here, we only use the wall button to open or close the garage door when
the car is in the garage. The remote is used when the car is outside.
Sure, it is convenient. At work in the winter there are five of us that
can park inside. We all use the remote to open and close the doors. At
home I have a detached garage so use a button when leaving.
In my new house the garage will be attached. You can bet there will be a
CO detector too. Though I've never left the car running, I am getting
older and just don't know in a few years what I may do.
I don't buy canned soda so that is not a worry.
On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 9:49:08 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
I would hope all people would make sure the car is off before closing
the garage door too. My point is it's a poor practice to use the remote
opener to open and close the door when the car is in the garage. If
you're in the habit of opening it when you're in the car, it's going
to be much easier to back up into the door with it closed. If you're
in the habit of pushing the door button on the wall as you enter the
garage, then you're used to seeing and hearing the door open before
ever getting in the car. If you somehow forget to push the button,
you'd have an excellent chance of catching it before getting into the
car and starting it. If you're in the habit of getting in the car,
starting it, then using the remote, that opportunity is gone. Now
you have the noise of the car, possible other distractions associated
with starting it, eg warning lights coming on, where you could forget
to open the door and not notice it. But to each his own, do as you please.
For one thing, I back into the garage so if there is a big dark thing
where it should be open space, I'm not going forward.
I imagine people have backed into closed doors but is seems hard to
believe anyone would put a car in reverse and move without looking first
but I'm sure some would.
Getting back to the CO problem, I know people that always leave their
keys in the car. If you do that in the garage it would be easier to not
turn the car off as there would be no beeping on exit. While it may be
handy, it would be poor practice even if the garage is locked. If you
go to the store, you would still want to take the key with you when you
stop. I keep my key in my pocket when driving and on a shelf in the
house when home. That said, once when I used valet parking the fob was
in the cup holder and I did forget and leave it there when we got home.
On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 10:36:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
It happens all the time. You've never seen it happen in a parking
lot, for example? A friend of mine just had it happen to him,
he was stopped at the local supermarket and a car backed out and hit him.
I've seen cars start backing up while I'm walking behind them too.
In the parking lot case, people can back up 6 feet
or more before hitting something. In the typical garage, you have
what, 2 ft? It's not unusual in my experience to see people put a car
into reverse, start to move just a bit and then look what's behind them.
There could be reasons why you want to use the remote from inside the
car to open the garage door. All I'm saying is if it's your practice
to open it with the wall switch, see it move, hear it move, before ever
getting in the car, it seems to me you have an additional habit there
that makes it less likely to wind up backing up into a closed door.
And same thing with closing it, if you're using the wall switch,
instead of doing it from inside the car, it seems to me that you'd be
more likely to realize that the car is still running and something
isn't right when you push the wall button.
On Mon, 14 May 2018 07:52:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
It sounds like a self solving problem with little impact on the
community at large so I would just write it off as education. Back
into your garage door a few times and you might start using your
As for going into the house, my FIL did use the wall mounted button.
He did not hear he car running because he was distracted by the phone
call. The FOB was taken inside but the car still "saw" it so he did
not get the warning beeps. The range is around 15 feet and might even
be more than that since it is essentially blue tooth.
I said earlier, a product that would stop all of this cold would be a
switch controlled module on the garage door than sent the turn off
signal to the car when the door closed and would not let you start it
until the door was open. Just program it to the car like an additional
Quick! Call Ron Popeil
On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 12:30:45 PM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
The problems of course come when it fails to work perfectly, eg the car
won't start because the system thinks the door is closed. You would
think they could have cars programmed to shut off after say 15 mins of
idling with the car stopped. It could give an alert a few minutes before,
saying it's going to shut off unless you push a button that indicates
you want another 15 mins. Many places you're not supposed to be idling
cars unnecessarily many places anyway. Only downside I see would be if
you wanted to run it for an hour to charge a dead battery that you just
got jumped, or similar problem. But even then as long as you reset it every
15 mins you'd be OK.
With all the technology in cars today, it cannot be that difficult to
do. as for charging the battery, minor inconvenience for the few that
would have to do it.
With no fob sensed, it couldjust shut down. A warning is needed if the
fob is present. I can see people at the GW bridge not realizing the car
may shut down if they don't do some action. Given that people do leave
key in the car, it would have to be able to shut down anyway but even
stuck in traffic, in 15 minutes you probably hit the brake peddle of
jiggle the steering wheel.
My FIL's problem is he leaves the fob on the table just inside the
garage door and the car can still see it. I got him a little wire mesh
tray at office depot that will hide it if he remembers to drop it in
the tray. He used to just leave the fob in the car.
The car does honk the horn if you take the fob out of range with the
Under the "Apple doesn't fall far from the tree theory", I suppose if
you have an individual (the father) who believes that with a modern car
if you just walked away from it with the key in your pocket it would
automatically shut off, it should not be that big a surprise that his
son would believe that the presence of high levels of CO would make a
can of Pepsi explode. They are both idiots! Mystery solved!
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