Deadly Convenience: Keyless Cars and Their Carbon Monoxide Toll

Deadly Convenience: Keyless Cars and Their Carbon Monoxide Toll From the alt-far left so you can believe... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/deadly-convenience-keyless-cars-and-their-carbon-monoxide-toll.html
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On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 10:34:46 AM UTC-5, BurfordTJustice wrote:

I just came up with an idea. A carbon monoxide detector connected to an indoor alarm and triggering an exhaust fan in the garage. It could save lives. ^_^
[8~{} Uncle Inventive Monster
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On Sun, 13 May 2018 09:07:44 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

I have a better idea, a switch in the garage door that turns off the car via a "fob" clone, when the door closes. The car won't start until the door opens.
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On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 1:21:12 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That's a part that the NYT didn't address, how the car winds up running AND the garage door is shut. Even with a very quiet car, no way you would not know it's running here and be able to push the garage door button to close it. I would agree coming up with some ways of trying to prevent this is a good idea, but I think you have to be drunk or senile or something to wind up with the car running and the garage door closed.
Also, in that piece, the son of one of the victims said that Pepsi cans inside the garage had exploded because of the CO? What's up with that? How could CO possibly cause soda cans to explode? Makes no sense.
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On Sun, 13 May 2018 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

If you have the radio going, you can't really hear the car running and since you are not turning a key and taking it with you, someone can forget to turn it off. My FIL did it once with his cadillac and he did not really figure it out until the CO detector (I made him install), went off. He said he was in his car, talking on the phone (in dash) and something on that call had him thinking about something in the house. He went in to do that, hit the GDO on the way in and 15 minutes later the alarm went off. I pointed out later that you can still use the radio and phone with the car off until you open the driver side door. Unfortunately there was a software problem in his older model caddy that did not turn everything off. It killed the battery so he tried not to use that feature.
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On 5/13/2018 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:

Quiet as cars are today, I can see it happening. You frive into the garage, hit the button for the door and don't hit the ignition shut off. My car emits long beep if I leave the car running, but it is possible, since the car in in the garage, to just leave the key in the car so no signal.
There are a few easy fixes. First, the car should emit a signal when the fob leave and car is running There should be a shut down of the engine if the fob is not present for say, 10 minutes. Building code for attached garage should be a CO detector with an alarm in the house. Interconnected alarms or ones that send a signal to your phone would work. They already exist.
Yes, old age is a part of it, but a little confusion can do it too. A 45 year old woman at work parked her car and dropped a package or something and she left the car running, key in ignition. At least it was warmed up when she left 9 hours later.
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On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 2:30:56 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Are you suggesting people hit the garage door button via the remote in the car? If so, there's a big part of the problem. That is poor practice. If you're using the remote in the car to open and close the garage door when the car's inside the garage, I'd think you'd smash up a few garage doors long before you got around to gassing yourself.
Here, we only use the wall button to open or close the garage door when the car is in the garage. The remote is used when the car is outside.
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On 5/13/2018 2:40 PM, trader_4 wrote:

Sure, it is convenient. At work in the winter there are five of us that can park inside. We all use the remote to open and close the doors. At home I have a detached garage so use a button when leaving.
In my new house the garage will be attached. You can bet there will be a CO detector too. Though I've never left the car running, I am getting older and just don't know in a few years what I may do.
I don't buy canned soda so that is not a worry.
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On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 5:38:30 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You could stop using that remote to open and close the garage door when the car is inside before you backup through the door.
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On Sun, 13 May 2018 15:36:21 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

I suspect he actually looks back before he starts moving to be sure there isn't a mail man (or anything else) in the driveway. I suspect he would notice the door is closed.
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On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 9:49:08 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I would hope all people would make sure the car is off before closing the garage door too. My point is it's a poor practice to use the remote opener to open and close the door when the car is in the garage. If you're in the habit of opening it when you're in the car, it's going to be much easier to back up into the door with it closed. If you're in the habit of pushing the door button on the wall as you enter the garage, then you're used to seeing and hearing the door open before ever getting in the car. If you somehow forget to push the button, you'd have an excellent chance of catching it before getting into the car and starting it. If you're in the habit of getting in the car, starting it, then using the remote, that opportunity is gone. Now you have the noise of the car, possible other distractions associated with starting it, eg warning lights coming on, where you could forget to open the door and not notice it. But to each his own, do as you please.
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On 5/14/2018 10:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:

For one thing, I back into the garage so if there is a big dark thing where it should be open space, I'm not going forward.
I imagine people have backed into closed doors but is seems hard to believe anyone would put a car in reverse and move without looking first but I'm sure some would.
Getting back to the CO problem, I know people that always leave their keys in the car. If you do that in the garage it would be easier to not turn the car off as there would be no beeping on exit. While it may be handy, it would be poor practice even if the garage is locked. If you go to the store, you would still want to take the key with you when you stop. I keep my key in my pocket when driving and on a shelf in the house when home. That said, once when I used valet parking the fob was in the cup holder and I did forget and leave it there when we got home. Lesson learned.
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On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 10:36:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It happens all the time. You've never seen it happen in a parking lot, for example? A friend of mine just had it happen to him, he was stopped at the local supermarket and a car backed out and hit him. I've seen cars start backing up while I'm walking behind them too. In the parking lot case, people can back up 6 feet or more before hitting something. In the typical garage, you have what, 2 ft? It's not unusual in my experience to see people put a car into reverse, start to move just a bit and then look what's behind them. There could be reasons why you want to use the remote from inside the car to open the garage door. All I'm saying is if it's your practice to open it with the wall switch, see it move, hear it move, before ever getting in the car, it seems to me you have an additional habit there that makes it less likely to wind up backing up into a closed door. And same thing with closing it, if you're using the wall switch, instead of doing it from inside the car, it seems to me that you'd be more likely to realize that the car is still running and something isn't right when you push the wall button.
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On Mon, 14 May 2018 07:52:14 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

It sounds like a self solving problem with little impact on the community at large so I would just write it off as education. Back into your garage door a few times and you might start using your mirrors. As for going into the house, my FIL did use the wall mounted button. He did not hear he car running because he was distracted by the phone call. The FOB was taken inside but the car still "saw" it so he did not get the warning beeps. The range is around 15 feet and might even be more than that since it is essentially blue tooth.
I said earlier, a product that would stop all of this cold would be a switch controlled module on the garage door than sent the turn off signal to the car when the door closed and would not let you start it until the door was open. Just program it to the car like an additional fob. Quick! Call Ron Popeil
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On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 12:30:45 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

The problems of course come when it fails to work perfectly, eg the car won't start because the system thinks the door is closed. You would think they could have cars programmed to shut off after say 15 mins of idling with the car stopped. It could give an alert a few minutes before, saying it's going to shut off unless you push a button that indicates you want another 15 mins. Many places you're not supposed to be idling cars unnecessarily many places anyway. Only downside I see would be if you wanted to run it for an hour to charge a dead battery that you just got jumped, or similar problem. But even then as long as you reset it every 15 mins you'd be OK.
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On 5/14/2018 12:45 PM, trader_4 wrote:

With all the technology in cars today, it cannot be that difficult to do. as for charging the battery, minor inconvenience for the few that would have to do it.
With no fob sensed, it couldjust shut down. A warning is needed if the fob is present. I can see people at the GW bridge not realizing the car may shut down if they don't do some action. Given that people do leave key in the car, it would have to be able to shut down anyway but even stuck in traffic, in 15 minutes you probably hit the brake peddle of jiggle the steering wheel.
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My FIL's problem is he leaves the fob on the table just inside the garage door and the car can still see it. I got him a little wire mesh tray at office depot that will hide it if he remembers to drop it in the tray. He used to just leave the fob in the car. The car does honk the horn if you take the fob out of range with the car running.
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wrote:

CO did not make those Pepsi cans explode. Took place in Florida, additional heat buildup from the car running hours on end made the cans explode.
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On 5/13/2018 1:38 PM, catalpa wrote:

[snip]

Obviously, that is the correct explanation. The fun comments here are the result of the son putting forth the CO buildup and/or the reporter running with that. Again. . . both are idiots
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On 5/13/2018 12:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

Under the "Apple doesn't fall far from the tree theory", I suppose if you have an individual (the father) who believes that with a modern car if you just walked away from it with the key in your pocket it would automatically shut off, it should not be that big a surprise that his son would believe that the presence of high levels of CO would make a can of Pepsi explode. They are both idiots! Mystery solved!
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