Existing setup:
1955 house, pull chain lights in closets, junction boxes in ceiling, porcelain fixtures flush with ceiling.Plan:
- Install box extender on existing box.
- Run Wiremold raceways from box, across the ceiling and down the wall to surface mount switch box.
- Attach porcelain fixtures to box extender.
Any code issues with this plan?
Thanks!
Not sure about the extender, but for reasons which don't matter, I once had an electrician replace a worn out porcelain fixture in a closet. He said code no longer allowed the installation of incandescent fixtures in closets. Had to be fluorescent. Less chance of fire if anyone stacked cloth items too close to bulb.
This is in Rochester NY.
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ...
Think it still depends on the closet dimensions; not sure NEC totally bans incandescent in all closets but small closets can possible make it impossible to meet the clearance requirements of the Code (or make existing installations in violation).
The old Code I know required no pendant; and a ceiling mount fixture had to have unobstructed vertically to the floor and a minimum of 18" horizontal clearance to any storage area. A recessed fixture w/ solid lens or surface mount could be on ceiling w/ a minimum distance of (iirc) 8" from nearest storage. Any bracket fixture must be on wall _above_ the door and still provide the 18" clearance.
These reqm'ts may have been tightened further in later versions or localities have more restrictive reqm'ts as well.
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If you modify it, you have to bring it up to the current NEC (whichever version is operative in your jurisdiction). If you don't store any clothes in these closets, no problem. For clothes closets, you are restricted in the type and location of the light fixture you use. See NEC Article 410 for the rules, here are the 2008 requirements in a nutshell:
Unenclosed incandescent lamps are prohibited. Enclosed incandescent fixtures must be 12" away from the "storage space" (see below). Enclosed recessed incandescent fixtures, fluroescent fixtures, and LED fixtures must be 6" away from the storage space. Specially identified LED and fluorescent fixtures can be used in the storage space (I don't know whether these exist or not).
So what is the "storage space"? It consists of the following volumes: between the floor and a height of 6' (or the highest rod if that is higher), the space within 24" horizontally of the side and back walls. Above this height, the space within 12" horizontally (or the width of any high shelf, if greater) of the side and back walls.
Cheers, Wayne
Wayne Whitney wrote: ...
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Only if you ask... :)
I personally would see no difference and wouldn't hesitate to simply move the switch; closets is one place where the CFL's aren't a bad play in place of incandescents from the safety standpoint...
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Thanks for the info on the fixture itself.
Let's assume the specs for the fixture and clearances can be met.
What about the use of Wiremold so the chain can be replaced with a switch?
There's nothing wrong with using Wiremold, it is a listed surface raceway governed by NEC Articles 386 (metallic) and 388 (nonmetallic). I don't see anything in those NEC articles that would restrict its use in a clothes closet.
Just use all the proper fittings, boxes, etc. and follow the manufacturer's directions for raceway size (based on the conductors inside) and supporting requirements. Also check the box fill on the ceiling box with box extender.
Cheers, Wayne
did you ask your local code guys? Why are you involving them?
Who said I was I was involving them?
re: Who said I was I was involving them?
I gotta work on that stutter! ;-)
if you're not, then it doesn't matter about the code issues.
Oh, I see. If no one is watching then we don't have to follow the rules?
Let try this logic...
As bizarre as the code might be in some cases, I kind of believe that by following it we're somewhat safer than if we just nail some wires to the ceiling and duct tape a switch to the wall. After all, who's ever going to look in the closet, right?
If the NEC has something to say about extender boxes, Wiremold and surface mount switches in a closet, that might be good to know, if only for safety reasons.
Sometimes, Wally World has some small LED lamps with an Edison base.
I picked up two "fan sized" LED lamps. They have been used about a month (in fans). If I worried about that stuff, I suppose I would replace the CFLs in my closets with the LEDs.
In the past, I have seen LED stuff have premature failures.
A CFL would certainly be an improvement over an open incandescent.
If I remember right, you used to be able to use an open incandescent but you had to have an open space below it so the bulb could be broken and hot filament pieces fall without hitting anything.
If I was replacing a closet light I would use an actual fluorescent fixture or small enclosed fixture conforming to Waynes description. Closet lights are potential fire sources.
Not sure it is widely known - there are "bushings" that need to be used on the box ends of metal wiremold to protect the wire from the sharp edge.
How does one balance the cost of CFLs vs. incandescents in this situation?
Is it all just about the safety?
There have been numerous threads in this group about how CFL's should be left on for 15 mins, they aren't recommended for short duty cycles, etc.
Does the fact that they may only be on for a very short period but also are not turned on very often balance out?
In addition, don't most CFL's have "warm up delays" before they reach full brightness? If I'm only in my closet to grab a shirt and some socks, I doubt the CFL will ever reach full brightness.
Meanwhile, these old eyes make me grab a blue shirt and green socks cuz the light is too dim.
Unless you are living in the closet you wouldn't use CFLs because of electrical energy cost.
Incandescent light bulbs are restricted because of heat and the possibility of filament fragments from a broken bulb causing a fire. CFLs shouldn't cause a similar fire unless there was a failure that shouldn't happen in a UL listed one.
I wouldn't use a CFL in a porcelain fixture because someone could replace it with an incandescent [for new wiring also a code violation]. But it should be pretty safe, a lot safer than an incandescent.
All potentially down sides. Someone said they liked CFLs in the bathroom because they were not blinded when turning on the light in the middle of the night. Life is a series of trade-offs.
Thanks!
Ya know, when I asked "Is it all just about the safety?" you could have just said "Yes". ;-)
You can get 60W-equivalent CFLs for under $2 each. At that price, the cost is so close to zero that it hardly matters. Back when CFLs were first out and cost $20 each, I was a lot less willing to put them everywhere. Today the only incandescents left in my house are in the oven, refrigerator, and dryer. The nightlights are now all LED.
It's the number of cycles that matters. Whether they are on for a second or a day each cycle, doesn't matter.
I have outdoor CFL floodlamps on a motion detector and have noticed no problems with reduced life. I think that the warnings about cycling, at least with modern CFLs, refer to turning them on and off like a hundred times a day. I've not seen any of these warnings about cycling that give actual, experimental or engineering-verified numbers.
True, though with the better ones, most people don't notice. There's enough light within a second that you feel the light is on. It's only when you are looking very carefully at something, or going to the other side of the room, that you notice an improvement after 30-60 seconds.
Well, here's a real advantage to CFLs. You can get them in daylight spectrum (5500K) for the same price as the yellow ones that imitate incandescent light (2700K to 3500K). I like the HD ones but by now there are probably other good ones. Your eyes can see the colors a lot better with the daylight spectrum light. There's a reason that photographers use 5500K lights.
You can also put in a CFL with a lot more light output for the same wattage -- for example, your closet fixture might be rated for only a
40W bulb, but you could put in a 27W CFL with about four times the light output of a 40W incandescent. Even without waiting for warmup, it's a lot brighter. Much better for the aging eyes. (My eyes are 61yo.) Unless the fixture itself is too small, but I've replaced several fixtures just to be able to get daylight spectrum lights.Edward
If $2 is "so close to zero that it hardly matters" why don't you bundle up those $2 notes and send them to me. Anyway, you've picked the most common wattage which for some reason is always the cheapest.
60W is vast overkill for inside the average closet but when you use something more appropriate the cost climbs exponentially. Today at HD I picked up a pack of two (equivalent) 20 watt candelabra base CFL's for the trivial (!) sum of $12.60. I match the light output with what I want to illuminate and it's very rare I come up with (equivalent) 60 watt; either it's 40 watt or less or greater than 150 watt (both equivalent).Irritatingly, Don Kiplstein (sp?) too is always using the 60 watt loss leader to show how wonderful CFL's are. Dishonest!
You have no antique fixtures, no exposed bulbs, no candelabras, no fixtures where the point of interest is the bulb,... Must live in FL.
I ceased to use nightlights when I was about four.
In that case you don't need the wattage you've installed. Use a lower wattage that reaches full power instantly. Oops, I've just described an incandescent.
Nonsense. Photographers use 5500K (or higher) to simulate outdoor conditions. When you use these inside the color is far too blue. People look unreal. 2700K (2500K is even better) makes for more restful viewing. You don't want to have to wear sunglasses inside do you?
Bizarre! Who needs the equivalent of 100W in a closet?
Most CFLs I've used reach full brightness in less than a second. The only exception being enclosed floodlights. I'm not using any in really cold places.
Incomplete statement. I suppose you don't like blue and green.
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