Re: Historical question: single outlet

I have an old ish house where under a bedroom window is a single outlet. Pretty sure it was meant for an air conditioner and a second outlet could not handle the load. Me speculating.

Is it on its own circuit? If not, someone may have thought they were doing the right thing, but without seeing the bigger picture.

Nit picking time, except it's not really a nit, it's an actual thing...

The NEC refers to the device we are discussing as a "receptacle", not an outlet. An outlet has it's own definition.

The following link does a decent job of explaining the difference.

So, the thing I push my appliance plug into is an outlet. I have a single receptacle with one outlet that could have 2 outlets in the one receptacle allowing 2 plugs for the single receptacle. Am I on track?

I don't thilnk there were room airconditionars in 1930 and they certainly woulnd't have put an outlet in the maid's room and not in the other rooms. Also, the whole apartment only had 20 amps, which supplied two 15-amp circuits with slo-blow fuses. I don't think there had been any rewiring when I was there, but if ther had been, it would have been even less when built.

I was still able to run a 1500 watt heater at night during very cold periods and I also had a small room air conditioner during the hot part of the summer, but this was the late 70's, early 80's. I blew a fuse

No, there were only two circuits. I never tried to map which things were on which circuits. I lived there about 10 years and only blew the fuse 5 or 10 times, always for the same, or maybe two reasons. So there was no incentive to map the circuits.

It was a luxury building and I'm sure they didn't hire a cheap architect or what do you call the electricity designer?

Each street-facing apartment** was 6 rooms with 2 3/4 baths (that is, the small bath had a showeer), hardwood or parquet floors, cedar closet, potato/onion cabinet, a dumb-waiter that connected each apartment to the basement, where there was a concierge who accepted packages and sent them up on the dumbwaiter, which I think also took the laundry down to the basement. He did laundry for tenants. I don't know how the wash was done but for drying they had 6' high 10" wide, 5' deep drawers with rods to hang the sheets etc, heated by gas.

The other apartments had all those features except fewer rooms.

There was a furnished lobby, a doorman and a switchboard operator in the front hall. I haven't figured out if each elevator had its own operator or somehow they shared one. He also delivered the mail to each apartment.

By the time I got there, they had automated the elevators, fired the operators, put mailboxes in the hall and fired the switchboard operator and the doorman.

You have it sort of inside out.

From that website:

"A receptacle is always an outlet but an outlet is not only a receptacle. "

'An outlet is defined as “A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment”.'

For example, if you have a ceiling fan hardwired to the source wires in a junction box, that junction box is an outlet, but it's not a receptacle. It doesn't "receive" anything, it gives something out.

If you install a device that accepts a plug or is specifically designed to mate with something that will utilize the current, that device is the receptacle.

In the wall beneath your window you have a single receptacle installed on an outlet. Assuming it's a standard size box, you could install multiple receptacles on the outlet. (I'm not sure if they still use the term "receptacle outlet" these days, but the box in the wall used to be referred to that way once a receptacle is installed on it.)

However, receptacles are no longer just that thing that we plug corded equipment into. That's the point of the change in the definition of "receptacle" in the 2017 NEC. There are devices today, such as the plug-and-play fan shown at that website, that are not designated as cord-and-plug equipment but do use a receptacle.

You have a junction box with the source wires. That is your outlet. You attach a light-weight device that has electrical contacts in it. You then bring the heavy fan up to that device and "twist lock" it into place. That light-weight device is now defined by the NEC as a receptacle because it is used "for the direct connection of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the corresponding contact device."

So, while *technically* your single receptacle is an outlet, the NEC refers to it by the name it has given to a subset of "outlets" known as receptacles. The main reason for that is because the NEC has specific codes for receptacles that don't make sense when applied to "outlets" in general.

Pop quiz: Do you know what an inlet is? No cheating. This is not an open book quiz. ;-)

Before I even think about Inlet, I still need to wrap my head around a plug. Is a virgin girl a receptacle until the point she becomes an outlet? I just an Amazon look. One for outlet, one for receptacle. They too are confused. Exact results. Without cheating, is the plug in my hand the inlet?

The NEC defines a plug as follows:

Attachment Plug (Plug Cap) (Plug). A device that, by insertion in a receptacle, establishes a connection between the conductors of the attached flexible cord and the conductors connected permanently to the receptacle.

That question doesn't even make sense terms of the definitions previously discussed.

There is no confusion on the part of Amazon. Amazon (and most are search engine) descriptions are written in such a way as to produce the maximum number product hits as they can. I wouldn't use the Amazon search utility as an educational tool.

No. An inlet is an indentation of a shoreline, usually long and narrow, such as a small bay or arm, that often leads to an enclosed body of salt water, such as a sound, bay, lagoon, or marsh.

It's also a device that is used to safely allow power to be brought *into* a system vs. taken out. I installed an inlet on the side of my house so that I can use a cord from my portable generator to supply power to my breaker box.

Inlet:

(My breaker panel has an interlock that prevents it from being connected to the Power Co's pole and the generator at the same time.)

The NEC also allows inlets to be used to supply power to a single receptacle, such as a recessed receptacle behind a TV. Since you are not allowed to run a flexible cord inside a wall, the use of a inlet allows for a easy method of supplying power to the recessed receptacle without actually extending a branch circuit. No drilling through studs, etc.

Look on the back of your PC, laptop, TV, etc. Any device with a detachable cord. You will find an inlet to accept that cord. Now, you may ask yourself "Self, why didn't they just attach the cord on the inside of the device?"

By using an inlet, the device becomes "global". Build every machine the same way regardless of where it's going to be shipped. It's going to be used in the US? Include a power cord that is compatible with US receptacles. Getting shipped to Germany? Include the proper cord for that country. Genius!

Down with it now I hope. My 3 prong plug is inserted into a receptacle that is wired to an outlet. I too have a small gen. I only plug into the receptacles to the power tools I need. I have no want for a house inlet powered from the gen because the gen is too small to warrant the need.

My Amazon was used only because it was open at the same time while shopping for a shirt. Do you know the diff between button up and button down?

Thanks for the education and the time you spent.

No, backwards. The wall box in the outlet. The three prong device that you plug your cord into is the receptacle.

I hope I straightened that out with my post just prior to yours.

My grandmother had an "extension cord" that had plugs on both ends. It was under a table or sofa and once when I was little, my foot touched one end and I got a shock. My grandfather might have been alive then. I neve asked either why they had such a cord. I wish I had. The rest of the living room looked normal. I certainly didn't see anything for the cord to plug into.

Button down refers to the collar.

Button up seems to be the new name for a sport shirt, I guesss to distinguish it from other informal shirts that don't button up the front. I don't like it when they make up new names. The old names were good enough. And get off my lawn.

"Suicide cord."

Receptacles, ceiling fans, light fixtures and smoke alarms (hard wired) are all "outlets". (The j-box isn't an outlet.)

Connecting through a panel allows you (by switching everything else off) to run refrigerators, furnaces and other nifty stuff. Also requires a transfer switch or interlock for safety (as noted by MM). But you can also use extension cords for refrigerators and could kludge an extension cord for a furnace,

Amazon (and the unwashed masses) are not constrained by NEC-speak. NEC-speak is necessary to create legally enforceable rules and have rules for "outlets".

I think all the NEC exceptions that allowed a single receptacle, not GFCI protected, like for a refrigerator in a garage, have been removed.

Even with just a 3KW generator it could be worth having an inlet for the house. You don't have to power everything at the same time. You could have on most lighting circuits in the whole house, so that when you go the a room, you flip the switch and you have lights for example. And that's even more practical now with LEDs. If you do just a bit of load management it could work well.

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 11:27:08 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote: ... major snippage occurred ...

A cord with exposed prongs is one version of a suicide cord. The other version is the kind with exposed conductors, often used as a means to "test" equipment that doesn't have a cord. It is used for "testing" purposes just like a "test pipe" is used to see if a catalytic converter is bad.

Just like no one would ever leave a test pipe in place for an extended period of time, no one would ever leave a suicide cord in place long term. ;-)

... more major snippage ...

re: "The j-box isn't an outlet"

Please explain that comment. I'm not saying that I am right and you are not. I'm just trying to understand.

Here is how I see it:

Per the NEC, an outlet is defined as “A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment”.

IOW ceiling fans, luminaires and other hard wired connections are all *connected* to an outlet but they are the utilization equipment, not the outlet itself.

The current NEC Article 100 - Definitions section says this:

"Outlet - A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment”. "Lighting Outlet - An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder or luminaire." "Receptacle Outlet - An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed."

If the box itself isn't the outlet, the only other "point...at which current is taken" would have to be the conductors themselves. Yet this image, from an older version of the NEC textbook, clearly denotes the box as a Receptacle Outlet.

... more major snippage ...

I bought a 3500 watt generator that runs on propane or gas because it is enough for most of the things in the house I reall want. It will run a long time compared to the higher wattage ones. I only run it on propane as it does not need the maintence if I use gas that can get old. I do have a 5 kw one that runs on gas if I need more power or I run out of propane.

We do not have many power outages here. Maybe 2 a year that lasts more than 3 hours. So for short outages the propane geneator can be used and then forgotten about to the next time.

He means a box absent a receptacle, fan, etc is not an outlet. A box just used to connect wires is not an outlet.

Let's wait to hear from the expert himself as to what he means.

He stated that the receptacles, ceiling fans, light fixtures and smoke alarms (hard wired) are all "outlets". For the time being, I do not see how that statement fits the Article 100 definition of an outlet. "A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

I agree that a receptacle and a lamp*holder* - but not a luminaire - are outlets because they fit the definition: A bulb (the utilization equipment) takes current from the lampholder, therefore the lampholder is an outlet. A piece of cord and plug equipment (the utilization equipment) takes current from a receptacle, therefore the receptacle is an outlet and the box in which the receptacle resides is defined as a Receptacle Outlet.

AFAIK nothing takes current from a ceiling fan or smoke detector so I am asking Bud to explain how those devices fit the definition of outlets.

What do *you* mean "A box just used to connect wires"?

Do you mean "just to connect wires" as in "just to connect wires from 2 or more lengths of cable as a means to extend them" or do you mean "just to connect wires from a piece of utilization equipment such as a ceiling fan, which is then attached to the box".

The first is a junction box, the second is an outlet box.

(See Articles 314.27 and 314.28)

I know that a lot of people use the term "junction box" or "j-box" to include all of the different types of boxes covered by Article 3414. and that *may* be what Bud is doing. If so (and that's a big if) then I do not not feel that saying "The j-box isn't an outlet" is completely accurate.

That's why I want *him* to tell me what he means.