Changing 120v lighting to 240v

[jw]

I'm not saying I'm going to do this, but when that bulb ban takes effect, one option in my unheated sheds (where CFLs dont work in cold weather), would be to change to 240v lighting since those bulbs will still be sold. To do this, it appears that all I need to do is to change a 15a or 20a single breaker to a double breaker (same amps) and to keep with the code, paint the white wire black or red or other approved color. I know the wiring would be fine, but two questions.

1. would I need special switches? 2. Do these bulbs screw into a standard socket, or would I have to replace all the sockets? (these are the common porcelin sockets used in sheds basements, etc.) Some of these sockets have pull chains too, so that would be another concern I suppose. And I know all of these sockets that have built in outlets would have to be replaced to NOT have outlets.

A final question, does a 100W 240v bulb consume the same amount of electricity as a 100W 120v? My guess is that its the same and would not affect my electric bill, but I could be wrong.

[RBM]

At least at this point, you have little to worry about. The current legislation will ban standard bulb types, but anything that's not considered "standard" will still be available. I don't know who makes this determination, but you're certainly not going to see incandescent bulbs vanish

>

[Ed Pawlowski]

With 120 V lighting you have one wire on the switch breaking the circuit. With 240V, you should change to a double pole, but that won't be so easy given the way most lighting circuits are wired. That way you break both hot wires.

Power consumption is in Watt hours so yes, they will use the same power even as the amps are halved and the volts are doubled.

I'm not sure about the socket size.

I wonder if there will be other bulbs that will be exempt and work for you.

[clare]

MUCH simpler - just put in a transformer and use 12 volt lighting -

As for your other question, a 100 watt 240 volt bulb will draw half the current at twice the voltage, fotr the same power consumption.

[Chip C]

You should be using a two-pole switch to switch both hot legs of 240.

Chip C Toronto

[George]

Don't know how cold it gets where you are but I installed an outside fixture that has a cold cathode CFL in it maybe two years ago that is rated for starting at -10F and it does work.

[jw]

Normal cold periods are 0 to -10. Severe spells of a day to a week can go down to -30. These are not too often (thank God). But the common CFLs dont even work right at zero. I just change all bulbs to incandescent in December. I dont spend much time in the sheds in winter anyhow, except if I need to fix the car or something. But it drives me bonkers when I go in there to get a wrench and have to wait

5 minutes to see anything, and they never go to full brightness. I may as well use a flashlight, of course they dont work well in cold either, as batteries lose power.

[jw]

I never thought about the dual switch. Makes sense. Do they sell them?

Seems no one knows about the base size on 240v bulbs. I suppose if someone installed them in a standard base, someone else could burn out a bunch of 120v bulbs (now). I guess a sign next to the fixture would help.

[jw]

Which is what I plan to do, and have already purchased a surplus the last time they were on sale.

[ransley]

You will always be able to get an incansdesant bulb, cfls just wont work long over a stove, in an oven, or in a frige and garage door opener.

[ransley]

Better yet would be some 4 ft flourescent fixtures, with the right ballast cold wont be an issue.

[Art Todesco]

I've been using CFLs in a garage door opener since they came out. I don't know what is the issue here. I 1st put them in because that opener said 40 watts max for each of 2 bulbs. I got the largest CFL and even with the slow warm up, gave be more light right from turn on.

[Ed Pawlowski]

wrote

We do now. Base is the same.

[jw]

I knew that. I learned that the hard way back in my youth, when I tried to connect a 300W stereo amplifier to my car stereo. But I didn't want to leave it in the car because of theft, so I just rigged up a cigarette lighter plug with some #16 or #18 wires and plugged it in to the car's lighter socket. Before the fuse blew, that #16 or 18 wire went up in smoke, the lighter plug actually melted and was "glued" into the socket, and the wiring to that socket was also melted in spots throughout the car's wiring harness.

Afterwards I not only discovered that the car's fuse was a 30A where it was supposed to be a 10 or 15A, but the stereo amp instructions clearly stated to run #8 (or was it #6) wire directly to the car battery. But hey, who reads instruction books? Live and learn.... I learned.... the hard way !!!

[jw]

Ya know, the old 4' florescent fixtures with the coil ballasts were horrible in winter. In severe cold they would not even start at all.

A friend of mine was working at a hospital and they were remodeling some rooms and tossed out soem 4' flor. fixtures that have ELECTRONIC ballasts. He brought them home, and gave me one after hearing me bitching about the fixture above my garage workbench not working in the cold. That one he gave me works pretty well in winter. *BUT* A special bulb is needed too. He included the original blub, which is thinner. It died so I put in a standard el-cheapo shop light bulb, and it was just as bad as that original OLD fixture. I had to go to an electrical supply house to get the correct bulb, which was much more costly than those el-cheapo ones, but it does ok in the cold. Yet in the most severe cold, it still struggles to get to full brightness, and you can see (what I call ribs), little spirals that move along the bulb.

Thanks

[trader4]

You would think so, and that's how I would normally think of doing it too. However, I'm unaware of any code requirement that says it MUST be done that way. If anyone has any to cite, I'd be interested in seeing them. Reason I'm curious is that I recently helped a friend install a solar pool heater. While deciding on which controller to use, we had a couple of choices. One of them clearly used a single pole relay to work the 240V pool pump circuit. That product is widely used and UL listed. We selected the other controller which used a double pole relay because of that and that it lacked another feature we wanted.

[ransley]

Ther are new ballasts that take bulbs HD or most any place has, how cold is cold, Ballasts are rated for start temp and have improved over the years, but im sure at well below zero there is a limit.

[clare]

No, 12 volt lighting with a transformer at each lamp is simpler than switching everything over to 240, because NO wiring needs to be changed - the service panel and switches all stay exactly the same I am not ignorant of the current requirements, or the wiring implications at all. Also, the current required for a 100 watt bulb at

12 volts is only 8 amps, so 2 12 volt 100 watt bulbs could be run on a standard 14 guage wire from a single transformer - AND a 12 volt 100 watt bulb produces significantly more lumens of light than a 100 watt 120 volt bulb does, so less wattage is required for the same amount of light.

[Dan Lanciani]

| At least at this point, you have little to worry about. The current | legislation will ban standard bulb types, but anything that's not considered | "standard" will still be available. I don't know who makes this | determination, but you're certainly not going to see incandescent bulbs | vanish

I hope this doesn't work out like the previous legislation that effectively banned standard cool white fluorescent tubes in the 40W F40 and 75W F96 configurations. For several years we had mostly the 34W F40 tubes that were not quite compatible with the 40W-only ballasts and the 60W F96 tubes that were positively dreary (and of course a few very expensive higher wattage tubes that met the requirements to be exempt because of CRI). Now most of the commodity tubes meet the CRI exemption and 40W F40 and 75W F96 parts are the norm again, though not at quite the low prices of those old CW tubes. So I'm paying more for the tubes, I'm using just as much energy as before the ban, but I've been saved from the evil color rendering of what was originally called "cool white" (as opposed to the new "cool white deluxe"). Thing is, I actually liked cool white...

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

[Don Klipstein]

There is another factor: Incandescent lamps do not all have the same efficiency. For ay given wattage and life expectancy, 240V ones are less efficient than 120V ones, and 12V ones are more efficient than 120V ones.

A 120V 60W incandescent produces about the same amount of light as a 12V

50W one and a 240V one of about 70 watts.

The reasons: A longer, thinner filament has higher temperature gradient in the adjacent fill gas, and that means more heat conduction from filament to gas per unit area of filament. Also, a shorter, thicker filament can be operated at a higher temperature for a given life expectancy.