Changing 120v lighting to 240v

[jw]

In the middle of winter, I may be fixing the toilet in the house. I need a few tools, and all my tools are in the garage since I do not have a basement. The garage is not heated. When I go to the garage, I want the 6 tools I need in the house *NOW*. I;m not going to stand in the very cold garage for 10 minutes waiting for these CFLs to get bright enough so I can see what's in my toolbox, before I can get what I need and go back in the house. And last winter we had a few days where the temp was in the -30s. I went to the garage and those CFLs NEVER got bright. All 4 of them in my garage combined put out less light than one candle would produce. Maybe it's just the brand I have, but either way, I am not willing to go back to the caveman era with lighting just because the government came up with another stupid idea which they claim will save energy. Sure it does save a little energy when they work, like in a heated house, but it's no saving in my pocket when the bulbs cost 20 times what a common bulb would cost. (like $.25 for common bulb, and $5.00 for a CFL). CFLs work fine in some applications, but not in all. As soon as the outdoor temps start getting down around +30, I'll be replacing all the CFLs with common bulbs in my garage.

[jw]

I know for fact that the 240V submercible pump in my well is only switched on one side of the line. I'm not going to even try to explain it because it's a rather odd setup. The control box and capacitor was originally outdoors on a pole, with wires out in the open and running across the surface of the ground. There is an underground concrete pit about 5 feet from the well, where the storage tank is located. The pipe from the well comes into the pit and exits from the same place. There is no way to really puncture this concrete pit because the walls are over 2 feet thick, so there was originally just one of those well cables going in thru the entrance lid that lifts off the pit for access.

When I moved here, I moved that control box into the garage, which is

8 feet from the pit, and I ran gray PVC conduit into the pit, but its still on the surface of the pit because there is no way I'm going to even try to cut thru those thick concrete walls. But I bolted it down, and ran it into the garage, and put the control box in the garage instead of outdoors in the weather.

In the end, I have a 3 wire UF romex w/gnd going into the pit. To wire it, where BOTH legs would shut off, I would need a 4 wire UF romex w/gnd. There is no such thing, so that owuld mean more wires, large PVC conduit, and changing other stuff. The pump was installed in the 1960's and worked fine all those years. Aside from moving that control indoors and making the wiring more suitable and less messy, I just figure it was not worth all the extra hassle to shut off both sides. When I shut off the breaker, both sides are off, but normally one side is always left on. It works, so why screw with it....

Now if some chinaman comes up from the bottom of my well and tampers with my pump, he might get an unwelcome shock, but thats what he deserves for messing around with my well and pump.

[trader4]

:

Yawn... You emphasize following a standard, yet are unable to cite any. I agreed from my first post that it's safer to use a switch on both legs and said that is how I would do it. But I would also use a double pole relay for the solar pool controller I mentioned and that controller, while UL listed, uses a single pole relay to control the

240V pool pump. Seems strange they are selling them if they are a code violation and so dangerous. Of course a large part of the danger is taken care of by turning off the breaker to a circuit prior to working on it, which I think we all agree must be a double breaker.

Next time try adding somthing to the discussion.

[gfretwell]

OK We are talking about lamp holders.

410.93 Double-Pole Switched Lampholders. Where supplied by the ungrounded conductors of a circuit, the switching device of lampholders of the switched type shall simultaneously disconnect both conductors of the circuit.

There is also a similar rule in the motor section, the appliance section etc.

[trader4]

Which makes sense to me. Here's the manual for the solar pool controller that I was talking about. It has a single pole relay to control the 240V pool pump. Take a look at pages 8 and 9, that show how to install it and notice that only one leg is switched. Kind of amazing, no? We went with a different controller for two reasons, this being one of them. In the case of the solar pool controller I think it's especially bad to have only one leg switched because the controller essentially parallels the existing pool pump timer. So, one could forget about the solar controller, just make sure the timer is set to off and go to work on the pool pump wiring, which would have one leg always hot, unless the breaker were opened.

[dpb]

[e-mail] wrote: ...

I'm _presuming_ here, but I'd guess there's required to be a disconnect in front of the controller? If so, my guess is there's a dispensation for the controller.

I think the Section above applies to branch circuits, not necessarily to individual controls on gear w/ dedicated disconnects. Again, that's a presumption w/o having a copy of Code to refer to. Seems like I've seen similar stuff fairly often in automation that the controllers only switch a single leg; isolation is from a disconnect.

Or, of course, whoever said stuff always follows Standards, too? :)

--

[gfretwell]

You can have a single pole "controller" but you still need a 2 pole disconnect, marked with an "off" position.

[trader4]

So apparently there is a distinction in the code between lamp holders and other circuits, eg pool pumps? Lamp holders must have a two pole switch but other loads not necesarilly. Agree?

[gfretwell]

Yes, that is why the disconnect rules are specific to each type of equipment. The fear with a lamp holder is that someone will assume it is off when relamping and contact a hot screw shell.

[Chip C]

te:

In fact, 12/2 romex (generically NMD-90 in Canada, same stuff as romex but we have it labeled special 'cause we like to pay more) is available in the big boxes here with red and black conductors and an all-red exterior sheath. It's marketed for 240V baseboard heaters, and it's been around since at least the early 90's. Dunno if it was required by code as opposed to flagging the white with red tape.

Blue-sheath 14/2 has also recently appeared to make afci circuits stand out, apparently for the convenience of the inspectors when they eyeball the rough-in. Along with yellow-sheathed 12/2, I don't think code requires it, I think it's something the industry came up with.

Chip C Toronto

[clare]

There is a distiction between "electrical apparatus" or "appliances" and "premises wiring", which includes lighting.

The controller is part of an "electrical apparatus or appliance" which must have a dual pole disconnect or safety interlock - which is usually outside the device, while the "controller" is generally inside the device for compliance. A safety interlock shuts off the power if the case is opened.

That's how it is SUPPOSED to be done - but (code) compliance enforcement is very lax until someone gets killed.

Another possibility is the controller is european - where one side of the 240 line IS grounded - which does not change the code enforcement issue. - Or the safety issue

[clare]

I was SURE I remembered that being the case, Chip, from when I used to help my father wire houses way back in the "live better electrically" and "gold Medallion Home" days - but I could not find a refference to support my memory.

The darn stuff is called HEATEX, now that I come to think of it.

For all the disbelievers/unbelievers, just google "Heatex Cable

-marker -label -labels"

[krw]

I have never seen /2 without a white wire. I'm quite sure none of the stores around here sell anything with blue insulation, or without a white wire.

[krw]

Captain Obvious strikes again. So what? That wasn't what was being discussed.

Moron.

[clare]

Takes one to know one.

[mkirsch1]

You will still be able to get "rough service" 120V incandescent bulbs...

If you're that hung up on the old soft whites, stock up with a 20 year supply. Certainly something else will be along that'll be acceptable to you in that timeframe..

[krw]

What a witty comeback!

[krw]

That's my plan. I should have nearly 500 unfrosted bulbs by then. They may be a good hedge against the inevitable hyper-inflation.

[Roy]

:

=3D=3D Yes and you could hawk them for five times what you payed for them. Let the good times roll...

=3D=3D