Car Question

This is pretty much unrelated to the current squabble between Derby and me, and it's certainly not the reason I'm posting.

Except, I admit that I wouldn't have found this if I hadn't been looking up battery groups. One google hit was called Car Battery Types & Group Sizes, Skip this, unless you really want to see it:

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but the top half was just a way to pick a Firestone battery (which is an Interstate battery) so I filled in my car's details and it came up with 3 batteries. And two of them have the + on the right and one on the left!!!!. Well, Firestone is where I bought my last battery, and where they gave me the wrong one (see my quoted text above) and now I see why. But this was 3 or 4 years ago and their computer is still wrong!!!!

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(I think he gave me 3 batteries in total. I forget what was wrong with the first one. Too big maybe. ) Then I think he gave me the third one on the list. When I brought it back to him a few minutes later, he gave me one just like it with the opposite posts, one that is plainly not on the list. I was pleased that I hadn't scuffed it up, sort of blaming myself I guess that I didn't notice right away that it was backwards (and btw the cables in this car only move an inch or two) but now I realize it wasn't his fault, which is what I had thought, but it was Firestone's, or that of whoever provides their data.

I"m going to call him tomorrow and tell him their computer is wrong.

Not only that, it asked for my zip code and I gave it and instead of giving me the branch that's only a mile from my home and in the same zipcode, it gave me one 6 miles away.

I'm going to tell him that too. I've only been using this computer for 2 or 3 months and I've never been to a Firestone page before, and certainly never chose "my store". It should have gone by the zipcode.

Reply to
Micky
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He's disappeared. He was last seen in a car going backwards to return the battery.

Reply to
trader_4

I am going to partially apologize for the statements I made earlier, although they are not completely wrong. It's been a month since I swapped the batteries and my memory was faulty, but not entirely. I retract my statements related to stretching the cables to the front of the battery and will amend my statements related to reversing the battery during installation. In a sense, the reversing of the battery did occur.

I popped the hood on SWMBO's vehicle last night to refresh my memory and also looked at the battery choices at advanceauto.com, the site I used to purchase the battery.

I don't know if this link will work since it specific to my saved vehicles. If it doesn't, simply search for batteries for a 2003 Honda Element. You should get 3 choices. 2 AutoCrafts and 1 Optima, both Group 51R.

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You can't tell the POS vs. the NEG post from the pictures of the AutoCraft batteries on the main page, but if you click on the battery itself, there is a top view which shows the POS post on the left rear of the battery as viewed from the front, based on the labels. (The labeling is key to this discussion.)

Now look at the Optima battery. The POS post is located on the right front when viewed with the labels facing the reader. In order to install this battery with the POS post at the left rear, it would have to be installed "backwards" as far as the top label is concerned. In other words, the text on the top would be upside down and the front label would be towards the rear.

I purchased the Gold AutoCraft battery and when I popped the hood last night, I saw that the battery is installed "facing forward" according to the labels. i.e. POS terminal at the left rear, the top text facing me and the front label facing me. That got me wondering why I thought I had "reversed" the battery. The subsequent trip to advanceauto.com helped to jog my memory. Here's is what I believe happened:

First, let me state that I don't recall what brand battery was in the Element previously. I can state that it was not the Optima but it was some off brand that I was not familiar with. We just bought the E a couple of months ago I wanted to replace the battery before winter just to be safe.

What I do recall is this:

I had the new AutoCraft sitting on the workbench with the labels facing forward. I removed the old battery and carried it over the workbench, placing it next to the AutoCraft, with the labels facing forward. That is when I noticed that the posts were reversed from a left to right perspective. At first I thought that I had bought the wrong battery, until I realized that the previous battery had the posts in the front (based on the labels) while the AutoCraft had the posts in the rear, based on the labels. if you "reverse" the previous battery, the posts end up the same locations. You can see that by "reversing" the Optima battery shown at advanceauto.com.

I then realized that the previous battery had been installed "backwards" from a label perspective, i.e. the text was upside down when viewed from the front of the vehicle. I didn't notice that before I pulled the battery, but once they were sitting next to each other on the workbench, it was obvious. So, when I said I flipped the battery "front to rear" in my earlier post, I really had, in comparison to the previous battery. In reality, it was the previous battery that was installed with the front of the battery facing the rear of the vehicle, just like the Optima would need to be installed.

In all cases, the POS post ends up at the left rear where it belongs. I mis-remembered the stretching of the cable to the front of the battery and for that I apologize.

Bottom line: There is inconsistency in battery construction and labeling, such that certain brands of batteries have to be installed "backwards" in order to get the posts in the correct position.

I apologize for all the confusion caused by my previous statements.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

The label on a battery doesn't mean ANYTHING, as far as which way it faces, or which way it is installed. I know a battery distributor that sells batteries under their own brand, as well as supplying them for several other "private brands" and under the OEM name. They all come in with no labels on them. They install their own private label, the customer's private label, or the OEM label, depending where they are going to be sold. The labels just go on. Sometimes one way, sometimes the other - and in many cases no top label at all - just the side panel labels.

I would NEVER go by label position to install a battery. ALWAYS go by post location, and double check polarity before attempting to install.

Reply to
clare

Which is exactly what I did. I was simply explaining the reason for my initial confusion.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 09:47:59 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: Snipped for brevity::

ANd you would not have become confused if you did not give that useless label some credence in the first place - - -

Reply to
clare

Maybe rotate the battery 180 degrees in the tray to reverse the right and left terminal positions? Of course, this will move the terminals to the opposite side of the tray too...

Reply to
Wade Garrett

If that doesn't work, ask Clare if it's OK to turn the battery upside down.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Don't worry about it. It was good of you to go to so much trouble to check out what you had said.

Did you see my other post about Firestone. Today went by quickly but I'll call them next week.

When I say the cables on my current car move an inch or two, it's an inch to the left or an inch to the right, total two inches.

I bought this great device, Priority Start, that monitors battery voltage. Maybe there is a drain from the car alarm, or a glove box left on, or the headlights, or something, and it disconnects the battery when there is still enough juice to restart the car. All you need do to reconnect the battery is turn on something that uses a bunch of power. The dome light probably isn't enough but stepping on the brake pedal usually is. And the car starts right up. The radio stations are probably gone, and they say the engine control computer loses its gathered data, but frankly, my cars have never seemed to run differently without it. It was 80 dollars or a little more, but well worth it.

Reply to
Micky

Thanks.

I don't think you'd see any performance difference after the ECU loses it's mind, but I doubt you'd be able to get the vehicle inspected until all of the monitors reset. That can be either via a few days of normal driving or by performing a specific "drive cycle" which may reset them more quickly.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

On some cars performance and/or economy will take a minor hit untill the fuel trims reset, and on even fewer, the timing limits reset.(adjust to the fuel octane you are running or ethanol percentage)

Reply to
clare

I bought the Interstate Battery at Costco, whom sell _?_ Thousands of batteries. I have since confirmed, with another Costoc auto departmaent manager that I have the Interstate recommnded battery. Another call (most UNHELPFUL phone agent), to the Interstate customer Service desk, further confirms that my battery size is correct.

The above, noted youtube video does show my specific problem, less I am not using that battery post cap "filler". Alas it does not offer a solution.

Thanks to the many responders. to my off topic question

Reply to
Rob_Lowe

I am most confident, that I havwe the correct (+) and (-) post orientation/ connection. The Pos terminal does firt my Highlander, it is only the Neg post where the "connection clamp" is over sized, cannot securely clmap.

Of note, the factory installed clamp is a crimp fit, precluding an option to easily connedt another, after maket clamp

Reply to
Rob_Lowe

If you are CERTAIN you have the right battery, just buy a new negative cable and bolt it to the chassis somewhere and connect it to your new battery

Reply to
clare

Both Costco (where purchased) and the lame Interstate customer Service have re-confirmed that I have purchsed the recommended unit.

I bought the Highlnader new, thus I know that I have the original negative battery connecting strap/ securing clamp.

I was wondering if I cut a side open, on a short copper tube - then put it over the negative post. With the increased diameter, the neg clamp would securly compress. I am not sure if I might introduce other problem(.)s, eg a galvanic reaction etc?

Reply to
Rob_Lowe

Can you purchase the same *brand* as the battery you are trying to replace?

Did you put a set of calipers on the Neg post of both batteries? Wouldn't it be interesting to find that they are the same width (and height) which would take us back to the terminal.

When my wife drove a Taurus we had a few "dead battery" instances. I found that the positive terminal would always be slightly loose each time the battery died. It just wouldn't stay tight for some reason. I was chatting with a mechanic who does side jobs and he said he'd replace the terminal for $25, parts and labor. Mid winter, why would I say no? I went to his house, pulled into his garage and less than an hour later, the problem was solved.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

A better idea would be to get a small piece of lead sheet (roof flashing etc) and wrap that around the post till it is large enough to clamp.

Reply to
John G

Why do some people insist the OP use an adapter or bushing? That can still lead to a spark and/or premature battery death. Simply purchase the proper cable from an auto parts store. Direct contact is the best connection. Problem solved.

Reply to
Meanie

Suggesting is not insisting.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

How exactly a well tightened down terminal with a suitable filler material inside is going to create a spark, IDK. If it were me, I'd do that and sleep fine at night. He could replace the whole cable, but even if you do it yourself, it could be a real pain in the ass. People assume the other end is trivial to access. In many cars today, it isn't.

I still can't fathom how this is happening. The video one, it had some kind of metal cap interposer because *the connector was broken.* I guess maybe if over time the connector is over tightened, the lead will stretch until it's ruined. Maybe that's what happened here. The other solution would be to cut off the old cable connector and then put on a new one. How easy that would be to due, IDK. In a vice, it would be easy. With the cable end not being held, IDK.

Reply to
trader_4

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