On Dec 29, 4:05 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Help me out here. How exactly then does the 12V battery get
recharged? One would think it would be tied into and be recharged
via the main battery. It would seem pretty stupid to have a design
where the 12 volt battery could be exhausted and not recharged from
the main battery. Also, if this 12V battery is used to start the
car, then not recharging it via the main battery could leave you
stranded with a car that won't start, but has a fully charged huge
main battery battery. That doesn't seem right.
On Dec 30, 6:48 am, email@example.com wrote:
It does auto restart when key is set to on, and everything is
recharged when low but the traction battery triggers the motor, then
it shuts off by itself. I bet the motor starter battery is never let
to go below 12.8 when running and charges to about 13.3, just as your
car does it. The 12v lead acid only starts the little 4 cil motor. Its
my logical guess and I bet its right.
I did more sesearch.
There is NO 12 volt alternator charging system. There is a DC
converter that runs off the traction battery to supply the 12 volt
loads (and charge the somewhat redundant 12 volt battery). The engine
starts of the high voltage traction pack, ( there is NO starter motor)
and it is only allowed to drop either 40% or to 40% charge
(information is contradictory) so the vehicle always has enough powe
to restart. The 12 volt conveerter does not run unless the "ignition"
is turned on - so the 12 volt battery is required to operate interior
lights etc when the "key" is turned off.
It would be impossible to run a larger inverter off the 12 volt
battery than the 1000 VA unit he apparently was using.
On Dec 30, 9:32 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Not impossible, im trying to learn also at altautos toyota prius, it
is done and one guy there even has a hard wired inverter and 120v
socket. If the traction battery keeps the 12v charged then why not,
What I read of the article by his usage and what I have in apliances
tested by a Kill-a -watt, 1000 watts may never been needed, my 19.5 cu
ft frige pulls about 110 w, 450 surge.
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:48:22 -0800 (PST), email@example.com wrote:
The 12 volt battery does not start the engine.
If they are using a dc-dc converter they hardly need a 12 volt
battery. Sure don't need a large one.
The iDc converter portion of the inverter drive pack is apparently
good for a maximum of 100 amps so the battery "protects" the converter
if a short power surge of over 100 amps is required
What do you drive, a 8mpg, 4wd expedition, Wasting money to drive is
not money you keep or enjoy. Do you agree with giving 700 Billion a
year to our Arab enemies to move our vehicles. Hybrid is one good
alternative, but until the Gov subsides them they are high priced. 700
Billion we could have bought everyone in the world an Iphone, or paid
for insurance, fix our infrastructure, or pay for enough solar to make
a big difference here.
Agreed. I once had a car that got NINE miles to the gallon! It was a Ford
Custom 500 - with a 426 Interceptor engine, 4bbl carb, etc. God, I loved
Rest easy. We don't. We get about 15% of our imported oil from the Arab
lands. Most imported oil comes from our Canadian enemies (25%) and a goodly
bit from our Mexican enemies (13%). We also get a surprising amount from our
Nigerian enemies (10%).
No matter what is done, solar can never make even a tiny difference, let
alone a big one.
Had we spent the $700 billion as you suggest, we could talk to everyone on
the planet as we pedaled our bikes. That would be nice.
Gotta remember it's CNG - Compressed. Not a liquid fuel.
Refueling is slow and complex. No "self serve" CNG stations.
Fuel density is also low.
Kitchener/Waterloo had a fleet of CNG bussed (converted deisel
engines) and operating cost was over double the diesel cost.
They just retired the whole fleet.
It's the physics. Sunshine dumps about 735 watts/sq meter on the earth's
surface. At noon. On the equator. With no clouds. I haven't figured it for
Germany, but, adjusting for latitude, hours of daylight, percentage of
clound cover, and the like, and assuming a 50% efficiency rate for whatever
solar collector methodology in use, it would take a solar collecting array
the size of the Los Angeles basin (~1400 sq miles) to provide enough energy
for California (~50GW).
That's after it gets going. 1400 square miles is almost three times greater
than the size of the interstate highway system; it'll take a while to get it
The only way to increase the 735 watt business is to move the orbit of the
earth closer to the sun.
Don't get me wrong - sunbeams can help. Solar water heating is a plus and
there are even entire houses that are 'solar powered.' But that's small
mice. One Aluminum smelting plant uses more electricity than a million
homes. The New York City subway system uses, by itself, almost as much
electricity as all the residences in Manhattan!
You've noticed why solar energy will never be practical in a centralized
utility generation model. To be of any benefit, solar PV (and solar
thermal for heat and HW), have to use existing roof space on every home
i.e. the distributed generation model.
Ultimately since most renewable energy sources are intermittent
generation and the grid simply can't handle shifting that much
distributed generated power to track time zones and whatnot, there will
need to be some amount of local storage i.e. batteries at each home to
help fill in the generation gaps.
The technology is about at the point where this is workable, but the
economics aren't there yet for a variety of reasons. I expect ultimately
the solution will need to be utility installed and maintained RE
generation systems at customers homes, primarily solar PV, but wind as
well in suitable areas. I expect it will be PV panels on the roof and a
standardized battery/inverter package the size of a typical A/C
condenser or pad mount transformer outside the home so the utility can
access it for service when it calls home with a problem.
This distributed generation model won't eliminate the need for utility
scale generation, but it could sure put a dent in it as well as reduce
some demand on the aging and badly in need of upgrading "grid".
Or we could just screw all that and build nukes now. It's worked for
France, where they get 70%+ of their electric power from it. No
big Pickens plan. No need to convert cars to NG, or put up
economically unviable systems at everyone's homes. Yeah, it ain't
perfect, but then it's proven, available, competitive and an easy
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