Bees in the ground?

Not really. You're a victim of scare mongering. Sevin is less toxic than Cherrios in 7-Up.

From Pesticide Information Office Extension Services of Cornell, Michigan State, Oregon State, and UC Davis, funding via USDA.

"No reproductive or fetal effects were observed during a long-term study of rats which were fed high doses of carbaryl [Sevin]. The evidence for teratogenic effects due to chronic exposure are minimal in test amimals. Birth defects in rabbit and guinea pig offspring occurred only at dosage levels which were highly toxic to the mother. A 1980 New Jersey epidemiological study found no evidence of excess birth defects in a town sprayed with carbaryl for gypsy moth control. There is only limited evidence that carbaryl causes birth defects in humans. The EPA has concluded that carbaryl does not pose a teratogenic risk to humans if used properly "

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Reply to
HeyBub
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I think carpenter ants. But it's hard to tell.

Reply to
HeyBub

clipped

Your Cheerios and 7-Up do that?

Always the big "if", which is not what most people do.

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Reply to
Norminn

You know, I was reading this, with CSI Miami in the background, and I turned to look at the TV, and they were in an airboat after a plane crash or something, and the blond guy spotted a survivor, and I thought, "One of the yellow jackets survived!"

I have to learn to compartmentalize.

Reply to
mm

I was going to say the same thing, but you have a lot more experience than I.

Still, mice and maybe other rodents are very smart. When too many mice got killed on my second floor, they stopped coming up here. They routinely change the places they go to avoid dangers. The Tom and Jerry cartoons probably aren't far off. Of course they use lab-size rats in mazes and time them, and watch them get better each time they run the maze. I guess they can change the maze and the rat is still faster for having trained in the other maze. Aren't beavers and groundhogs rodents. They live in society and share responsibilities. One does't think of moles as being smart, but maybe they are too.

I was amazed however when a guy in the old fraternity house we lived in threw a shoe or boot at a mouse, hit it, and killed it. I didn't think they were killed that easily. Then he took it to the cat, which may have been sleeping. The cat gradually opened its eyes, looked for a second or two at the mouse, and then zip, quickly used its paw to scoop it into his mouth. Only the tail was out of his mouth.

Reply to
mm

On 15 Sep 2006 10:07:10 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, "HomeDecoy" quickly quoth:

Fill the hole with water to drive out the tenants, then pour in dirt to make mud. They won't be back.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Well, the guy IS still alive...

You would have a much better chance of getting him to stop using Dihydrogen Monoxide on his plants - there is a lot more empirical evidence showing the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide exposure to plants & animals.

In fact, a study conducted by U.S. researchers Patrick K. McCluskey and Matthew Kulick found that nearly 90 percent of the citizens participating in their study were willing to sign a petition to support an outright ban on the use of Dihydrogen Monoxide in the United States:

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Sevin, well... not so much if any empirical evidence.

Rob

Reply to
trainfan1

People drown in dihydrogen monoxide. Very dangerous stuff.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:51:04 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "JoeSpareBedroom" quickly quoth:

Grab a copy of Stossel's new book. He cites studies which show that people are more apt to be poisoned by nature's own pesticides than by any man-made artificials.

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But I'm against killing bees. Using water to drive them out is a much better play, IMO.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 00:47:43 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "JoeSpareBedroom" quickly quoth:

Some more books for you to ponder at Amazon or the library, Joe:

Bailey's _Earth Report 2000_, Crichton's _State of Fear_

but if you're really into fear, try Kaplan's _The Coming Anarchy_.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:56:41 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "HeyBub" quickly quoth:

RIGHT! Go back and look at the research done since the 60s. It was safer than many of the current pesticides. Rachel Carson's _Silent Spring_ has been found to be totally wrong but before that as a result, world governments had banned a perfectly harmless product.

Nearly three million people die of malaria each year. I hope she can sleep nights.

I used chlordane, etc. safely for years, too. Just pay attention to the instructions and bury what you need to so pets don't get into it. Billions of dollars worth of homes have been lost to termites since it was banned.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Just talked with my brother-in-law tonight. He had a nest and used Sevin a short time ago and the Sevin worked for him.

I had a few ground nests last year, one was big enough that the Sevin wasn't working (or at least not as fast as i wanted), so I got out the gasoline.

Here's some tips for gassing the nest-

get a small glass jar- i used a small 8-12 oz empty salsa jar. using a small container has several benefits- you know exactly how much gas you are dumping into the nest, so you don't have a giant explosion near you when you torch it. Also, you don't have a gas can to move away before lighting a match. I just took the small jar of gas to the nest, dumped it in, tossed the jar away from me, and threw a match on it. If you use a small amount, it should burn up.

In my mind, this is a way to be sure that you get them all, including unhatched bees.

The last nest I did this to was probably the somewhere between the size of a softball and a bowling ball.

I have also found that sometimes skunks or racoons will come during the night and dig up the nest, or at least open it up a little for you to dump or spray something on it. I don't know which critters do the digging, but it usually happens overnight. I have had this happen several times, usually in the fall, when the nights get cooler.

good luck!

Reply to
spamdisintegrator

No fear involved. My comment is purely rational, at least to anyone with any science education at all. And, that doesn't mean sitting in the classes.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Stossel!??! He's been discredited many times over for completely twisting this kind of information.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:11:16 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "JoeSpareBedroom" quickly quoth:

It doesn't appear that you delved into any of the books at all. The first two try to show people that their ecological fears are unfounded, as does Stossel's.

Kaplan's is an eye-opener to what's really going on in the world from a political standpoint.

I urge you to check out each and every one.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

You seem to have missed something. Agricultural chemicals cannot be tested for safety on human beings, like medicines. And, both the manufacturers and their most vocal critics agree that you cannot extrapolate squat from animal testing.

No testing, no proof either way. Thanks for playing.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:12:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "JoeSpareBedroom" quickly quoth:

Stossel was tried and found guilty of things by folks with something to hide. He also admitted (openly in his first book) to failing to check a researcher's facts regarding pesticides (the researcher forgot to check for them) and got nailed for it...ONCE. He was since promoted to higher office in ABC News. From Wikipedia: "Stossel has won many awards, including 19 Emmy Awards. One year, according to Stossel in his book Give Me A Break, "I got so many Emmys, another winner thanked me in his acceptance speech 'for not having an entry in this category.'" Stossel has been honored five times for excellence in consumer reporting by the National Press Club. Among his other awards are the George Polk Award for Outstanding Local Reporting and the George Foster Peabody Award."

That BOTH of his books continued on the Best Seller lists for long periods of time is proof enough that the public didn't buy any of the attempted guilt trips imposed by those he caught with their hands in the cookie jars and those with other agendas. He's a Libertarian and both the Reps and Dems hate that.

Open your mind and seek the truth, Joe.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

It doesn't matter. As I keep teaching you, there is no testing of agricultural chemicals on human beings. If you think they can be deemed safe without testing, then I would guess that you are choosing this path because you are one of the "perfect lawn junkies", and you MUST create your own reality to justify your use of chemicals.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Yassa massa. Jes doan hit me massa. (Don't you get nosebleeds up there, Joe?)

The scientific method settled upon by our gov't is to limit exposure to pesticides by testing for contamination. They, along with others from medical, chemical, and organic backgrounds, also determined which chemicals are were deemed safe enough to be used by farmers and gardeners on crops. Sevin is one of those.

I've used Roundup on thistles here but I don't use it on my garden plot in the spring, before I plant. Instead, I mulch to prevent weeds.

Bwahahaha! You guess far too much. If you saw my "lawn", you'd quickly realize that I don't use too many chemicals around here. I'm putting in raised-bed flower and specimen shrub gardens and will be happily removing as much of that damned grass stuff as I can shortly. I hate mowing. ;)

Used per the instructions, use of common garden pesticides make us no less safe than eating most commercially grown food

Riddle me this: When is the last time you heard of a pesticide-induced death, other than when someone fell into a vat of it or a tanker crashed? Let me know if you ever find any.

If you had paid attention, you'd have noted that I also stated that I liked bees, wanted them to live, that water was my preferred method to get them to move vs. poisoning or flaming them.

I'm on Nature's side, but I'm not afraid of a few chemicals, either. I rinse my veggies whether they're from local farms, supermarkets, or organic growers. Dirt and bacteria are the main reason for that, not pesticide residues. My method is to use Nature and common sense, first, organics when possible, and whatever nasty chemicals last, if indeed necessary. Some things, like blackberry bushes, need extreme measures. They're the worst weed in my yard and have taken a quart of blood every season since I moved here. Once I use this quart of Roundup (maybe 5 years. I have 1/3 acre in the country with pastureland on two sides.) I'll switch to a better defoliant like Crossbow. I spray before the breeze starts picking up.

If you ever read how many different chemicals are casually used on grapes, you'd never take another sip of wine or eat another grape, I guarantee. Vineyard workers are out there every week with one chemical or another, sometimes several in that time frame. I don't drink, and I prefer organic grapes _if_ I eat grapes.

Then again, there isn't enough oversight on organic farming and abuses happen there, too, especially by converted farmers who were used to spraying their crops with everything else. I'm not happy paying double the price for iffy food, either, so I'm not the strictly organic type. Organic produce is not necessarily any better, safer, or healthier than the corporate farm- grown produce. If you find documents to support such a statement, let me know about them, too. I've never seen proof. Because they have more undead (and unlisted) nutrients, they're probably better for us, but no proof has ever shown up.

-- Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization. -- Charles Lindbergh

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Larry Jaques wrote: [snip]

[snip]

Except for the spinach which i hear is, um, quite potent :-) Eric

Reply to
Eric

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