Backup Generators 101?

Paranoid advice...

A home standby generator is going to log ~100 hours a year typically. Factors that affect on road engines that log tens of thousands of hours don't apply.

It will also end up in home heating oil tanks as well.

Reply to
Pete C.
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I've lived here all my life in upstate NY. It's usually #1 fuel oil UNLESS the tank is in a semi-heated area inside the building (basement, whatever). If the lines are outside, exposed to the extreme cold, #2 fuel oil will flow slower and plug filters much faster. In extreme sub-zero temps are are common in the northeast #2 will often have flow problems thru the filters at the tanks and in the tank screens on the takeup pipes. Also, if the runs are long and along freezing outside walls all it takes is an insulation opening to allow the fuel oil to get gummy in the pipe. There is an incredible amount of misinformation and opinion sans fact in this thread. It's amazing.

Reply to
TWayne

Wow; I wish YOU luck! I saw the same show you did; but they didn't say to try it at home. There's a huge difference between engines that you are obviously woefully unaware of but your luncay factor keeps you from seeing it.

Reply to
TWayne

As is your advice. Only in certain geographical areas could your comment be near "correct". You know not of which you speak.

Reply to
TWayne

I'm sure they are available. They will need a starting battery, like a car. Actually probably two batteries, diesels don't want to start very well. Figure on spending a couple thousand dollars.

The installation will likely take a company with experience. Fuel, and wiring to be done.

You can have convenient, or you can have inexpensive. But not both. Well, at least not until it's been installed. For power outs at my adress, I have a gasoline generator, and a gascan. Less cost, and also less convenient.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

That used to be accurate but the low sulfur mandates have changed things. When they dispense diesel at the terminal they also have to add extra additives to improve the lubricity. Diesels depended on the sulfur for that. Now that most of it is gone they need to compensate. So when they dispense diesel there is an on road version that has the additives plus the dye and then there is an offroad version with the additives and no dye.

Reply to
George

Heating oil is always #2 mainly because it has higher heating content and more of it is available when the crude is processed. The only time #1 is used is when the tank and lines are outside and above ground because paraffin crystals will form in really cold weather and block the line.

Reply to
George

Uh, let's just say middle aged female who doesn't even like messing with pilot lights, let alone pouring gasoline out of a can, LOL. I will check with my oil company. My brother has a propane powered generator (too far away for an extension cord, alas), so I knew that propane is an option. I was mostly wondering if there was a way to reduce the number of tanks I'd need sitting in the yard. My brother has these monster propane tanks in his yard.

Oh well, this isn't about to happen anytime soon - at least until I've sold the other house. I'm just starting my research.

(And fwiw, my oil tank is above ground, right beside the house).

Thanks for all of the information. It's a lot to digest.

Reply to
Lee

True, and in recent times there is something else to consider. There are government mandates to lower the sulfur in fuel oils. Diesels depend on sulfur for lubrication. Now they blend in lubricity additives into diesel at the terminal to compensate.

Reply to
George

If you have plenty of funds get it done professionally and correctly. There are legal implications if someone attaches a backup generator and inadvertently perhaps due to a half-baked (i.e. cheap) hook up feeds electrcity back into the electric supply and maybe kills a power line employee working to restore service. YES IT HAS HAPPENED; and more than once!

Recommend: Go easy unless you want to show off to everyone else around 'My lights are still on'!!!!! And cheap (or cheaper) does not necessarily mean simple.

=46rom reading many postings, including this thread the following points seem pertinent.

If the outage is short, say four five hours, why bother? In even cold weather the house won't cool that quickly. Or plumbing feeze! Fridges will stay cold, if you don't open them too often. Some form of quick (an inexpensive) emergency heat can be on hand. We still have a little stove to make coffee or tea, warm beans etc; acquired some 47 years ago to warm baby's bottles for our oldest child! We use it with care by the light of a candle/flashlight.

We live around 50 deg. North next to the cold North Atlantic. We have an oil heater, ready to go; hasn't been out of the closet for years. Probably should dump the fuel oil out and renew! When power fails it is often at night and one has made it home during a severe storm; so one is not going anywhere. We get a hot water bottle from standing hot water in the tank. Go to bed and cuddle up! We also have a semi portable generator (which we got at a bargain and repaired ourselves) but again haven't bothered to use it for power outages for many years.

If outage was prolonged ( couple of days) our generator does have the capacity to plug in using a heavy extension to run the fridge and the freezer, or at least one of them at a time at a time. And once ours were charged up maybe run an extension over to our neighbours.

If you do happen to have some very expensive salmon and or moose/deer meat in your freezer that could spoil a) have your freezer in cool spot and b) Since it will not unfreeze for at least 10 to 12 hours even inside the house. If that's a problem get small generator and plug only the freezer into it for an hour or so a couple of times a day.

Have battery radio (or one of those windup things) or use your car radio to find out what's going on.

Since the O.Posting seems to indicate not much technical knowledge it might be best to avoid the additional complications and costs of something that will be rarely used and requires the installation of oil tanks etc. Oil problems can have an ecological impact if there are leaks. If going ahead make sure your insurance policy covers ecological 'clean-up'; it can and has been extremely expensive and involves government agencies and reinspections!

And as mentioned carefully research your type of fuel. Propane is fairly expensive fuel but again not much of it will be used if you have two power failures per year for say a total of 12 hours! Alternatively over long periods unused diesel fuel can get contaminated or absorb moisture; so gas line antifreeze/fuel conditioners annually/seasonally may be in order?

There's nothing worse than investing in some rarely used technology and then when it is most needed it doesn't work!. From a domestic property value point of view it may not be a good investment? If there are some activities performed at home that MUST continue regardless of a power failure then the expense might, perhaps, be considered as a 'Business Cost' and capable of being amortized overa period of a few years?

Reply to
terry

Buy a generator - any generator and guaranteed you will not have any more power outages for 3 years! :-)

Reply to
Bill

Negative ghost rider.

s

Reply to
S. Barker

That would make some sense. In the northeast houses generally have basements and the 275-300 gal tanks in the basement are the norm, therefore no cold oil issues. In the midwest where the other poster noted everything was #1 basements would be less common and outdoor tanks more common. Also in the midwest there is probably a lingering history from kero powered farm tractors involved.

Yes, some people seem to be oblivious to the fact that #2 *is* the grade of fuel and whether it's followed by "fuel oil" or "diesel" it's still the same grade of fuel. The difference is taxes, and so a very small extend additives for the on-road diesel in colder climates.

Diesel generators normally run on #2 fuel. In some cases where a large quantity of fuel is stored, #1 is used since it stores a bit better. In the very unlikely case your heating fuel delivery tickets just say "fuel oil" without mentioning the #2 or #1 grade, then you need to check what it is, since there are lower grades (higher numbers) that are usually only used in large commercial boilers in large buildings.

Again, as I noted originally, find the local Generac/Guardian, Onan or Kohler dealer, tell them you need a small diesel standby generator package and let them provide you with the relevant details for the equipment they can provide.

Reply to
Pete C.

Well, first off, the off-road / heating version gets the dye, not the taxed transportation fuel version. Second off, the sulfur lube issue exists for older engines, and you need to add the additives to the fuel you use for them, because it is not added at the terminal since new diesel engines use different materials to account for the loss of lubrication for the injector pump.

Here is some real information re: ULSD and it's issues. Again remember that a newly purchased diesel standby generator set will have accounted for the ULSD issues, and also will log perhaps 100 hours of run time per year.

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Reply to
Pete C.

Geographic areas have nothing at all to do with it. #2 fuel oil is #2 fuel oil - the #2 *is* the grade of fuel. Added dyes and taxes do not change the grade of fuel. #1 fuel oil also known as kerosene is also acceptable fuel in most commercial diesel generators.

If you are buying your heating oil from a supplier that is not specifying the grade (I've never seen a supplier that doesn't and it's probably illegal to sell ungraded fuel in most states) then you could indeed be getting any crap, including grades lower than #2 which are usually only used in big commercial boilers.

Reply to
Pete C.

Yep, just remember that you need to fuel and test it for that to work.

Reply to
Pete C.

Be advised.... #1 fuel oil (diesel) is a totally different product than kerosene.

s

Reply to
S. Barker

Sorry, unless we are discussing non-residential applications my original statement including the part you conveniently clipped off is quite accurate.

Reply to
George

Yes, I flipped the dye use. What I described is current practice. There is no additional qualifier for diesel except on or off road. Both get the additive and one gets dye. My buddy is the manager of the fuel farm that supplies most of the fuel for this area and my other buddy has a large liquid fuels business. I am quite familiar with current practice.

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The information I gave is real information. Your cite only says that because of complexity things may not be as described. According to my friends that is exactly what happened. They don't blend a diesel for new engines and a diesel for old engines because of the complexity. It already is complicated enough. Previously my friend could schedule deliveries of off road and fuel oil at the same time. Now they need to run off road, then on road, then fuel oil at separate times.

We don't know if the new genset they might purchase is suitable for use with ULSD and the whole point of this part of the thread is that there is a difference between fuel oil and diesel.

Reply to
George

Thats pretty accurate. My buddy decided that living in a remote area was for him. There were frequent power outages which made his wife very unhappy. He bought a propane powered generac with an auto start/auto transfer package. I set it up for him. We were just talking about it the other day and he says that they have had only one outage in the past two years since he bought it.

As a point of interest he bought the home depot version not the real quality generac. The thing is *LOUD*. It is totally painful to be anywhere near the thing. I thin I lost 10% of my hearing when we started it the first time and were standing by it. It has a automatic weekly exercise timer and people have jumped off their chairs when it starts.

Reply to
George

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