Auto Program you TV for OTA stations

[Peter]

I've never owned either a digital to analog TV adapter (remember those from the earliest days of digital broadcasting?) or a digital TV that allowed me to manually add a channel I couldn't receive during a complete scan/rescan. I could remove/add channels only to the list of channels that were detected during the most recent complete scan. That's why when a digital station changes it's broadcast frequency, you need to do a rescan. You can't just punch in the new frequency on the remote and receive the previously unused channel. The OP is using a directional antenna on a rotor that only detects the subset of all potential channels that could be received, depending on which direction he's pointing the antenna. He's trying to get all potentially viewable stations on his scanned list, regardless of their transmitter's compass heading from his antenna.

[micky]

Maybe you just assumed that was the case and didn't try. I find it really hard to believe that a tuner that allows you to remove a channel won't let you add one, just by punching in the channel number and then doing what it takes to add it. Espeically since I think you're saying you could add channels you had deleted.

I agree that rescanning makes for more work, and I hadn't thought of that, but doesn't rescanning make for even more work with your plan:

You suggested: "Have you tried mounting an omnidirectional antenna on your tower, perhaps with a low noise uhf/vhf amplifier, connecting that setup to your TV temporarily, re-scanning, and seeing whether you receive all the stations you desire/expect? You might even be able to find someone to loan those items to you, or allow you to purchase them with a guaranteed refund if they are "unsatisfactory". Assuming it does, then disconnect that setup, reconnect your rotor controlled directional antenna and dial the rotor direction for each station providing the best reception. Web sites, such as /www.antennasdirect. com/transmitter-locator.html "

OTOH we had to rescan about a month ago and that was the first time in more than 2 years. More than 5 years?

But you can punch in the same channel number and then add it.

Yes, I got that. Then he plans to set the rotor in the right direction for the station he is watching. Of course that means he'll have a list of stations and directions which means if he has to rescan, he'll have a list of all the4 stations he can get.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Cable encryption means the TVs tuner is useless for cable, so you need their box which doesn't use the tuner. Therefore, it is available for antenna use.

Separate tuners sounds like a good idea, but fully encrypted cable means you can't use one for cable.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Tuning without a scan would require knowing the actual (RF) channel number, that's something ordinary users aren't supposed to be able to understand. Also, how are subchannels really selected?

[snip]

[gfretwell]

I was referring to your statement that you have to scan for inputs.

If you sell a million TVs that is a million dollars. It is like GM not putting the 87 cent detent in the ignition switches in a bunch of cars. If they don't think they need it, the bean counters say don't do it.

I think the number of customers using rotors does not justify that software, more correctly Sony doesn't think it does. City folks can usually get a picture with a coat hanger.

Someone might make one that has the software to aim a rotor and select channels that way but I am not aware of it. Until then he is stuck with scanning the tower with the most stations and manually adding the rest.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

We had to rescan earlier this year, just because of a new subchannel (56-4, AntennaTV) that the local NBC station added.

[snip]

[Jim Joyce]

Oh, I think I see. You were referring to a TV that has a single tuner that can be used for cable _or_ OTA. I've never seen such a thing, but I assume they exist.

[invalid unparseable]

Since its digital, by the id.

[gfretwell]

Are you confusing tuners with inputs? The only tuner I have ever seen was behind the F-59 connector. It has a wide enough mouth to see all of the broadcast channels and the cable channels if they are not encrypted. The others are simply decoders that present the component, composite, S-video or HDMI inputs to the display processor. HDMI also includes DRM hardware. That is why content providers push it.

[gfretwell]

It still needs to know what frequency the channel is on. This is not like the old NTSC days, Channel 11 is probably on UHF not high band VHF. My TIVO actually tells you what broadcast frequencies each channel is on in one of the set up screens. It also gives you the opportunity to add channels the tuner never saw based on what was downloaded in the channel guide. I am not sure TVs are that smart tho.

[Jim Joyce]

No, but on each of my last 4 TV's there has been two tuners, each with its own input, and that seems to be different for Mark and his TV.

OTA signals would require an ATSC tuner, while (encrypted/unencrypted) cable signals would require a QAM tuner, right? AFAIK, both tuners can be consolidated into a single module with a single 75-Ohm F59 input connector, although I don't remember seeing that configuration. My TVs have two F59 inputs, although I use neither of them. I only use a single HDMI input on 3 TVs, and two HDMI inputs on the 4th TV.

I push HDMI because it uses a single cable for HD video and audio, so it's super convenient. HDCP hasn't bothered me so far.

[gfretwell]

A I have only seen one F59 on any I have looked at but they do have a tuner with a wide mouth that can do QAM or ATSC

HDMI is only a problem for people who want to copy movies. Typically they will let SD stuff through but it will blue screen on a copyrighted HD movie. There are work arounds but I have never pursued it. When you can buy DVDs for a buck or two, why bother?

[micky]

So does that mean if you hadn't rescanned, you'd still have gotten all the channels but that one.

Could you have just punched in 56,4 and the tv would find it, and then ou could add it to the internal list, but they said to rescan because that's a simple instruction and applies to everyone, whereas the instructions for adding a station vary by tv.

[micky]

You could use the same logic about every feature in the tv and when you were done all the t v's would be the lowest priced model, no good ones.

What matters is what they actually do, not what some cost cuttting theory says they might do.

I say what they do is charge 287 dollars for the tv instead 286.

We're not talking about rotors, but about OTA tuners.

You were the one who brought up 17% and I never for a moment thought that was the percentage that had rotors. My answer had nothing to do with rotors.

Using a rotor doesn't add anything to the cost of a tv tuner.

Regardless of antenna, they can't get any OTA stations if they don't also have an OTA tuner. You were claiming they didn't have an OTA tuner because it added a little to the price.

[trader_4]

I would expect that the HDTV tuner part doesn't add much real cost to a TV, that most of it is integrated into the chipset to begin with. The cost to the manufacturers and selling chain to have two similar models, one with and one without probably exceeds the cost of putting it in both.

[trader_4]

They existed decades ago when NTSC TVs just had RF input and cable boxes had RF output. Then you had Mark's scenario, but that's been a very long time ago, NTSC broadcast ended over a decade ago.

[trader_4]

You would sure think so. Of course stations are added, move, etc so it may need updating occasionally, but still, sounds like manually adding them is the way I would do it. You'd think TV manufacturers might have thought of this and provided a feature where it will save what's there, but allow you to move the antenna and scan those in too. But I guess not.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

I have heard of 2-tuner TVs, but never seen one.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

An encrypted cable signal might be TUNABLE with that QAM tuner, but the result would be useless.

It probably can't accept both connections at the same time. This would require combining the signals, probably impossible because of frequency conflicts.

My TV does REMEMBER both (OTA and cable) but only one can be connected at a time.

[snip]

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Yes, it was just that one that needed to be added.

I can't try 56.4 now, since its already scanned (checking it would require disconnecting the antenna, rescanning, then reconnecting the antenna. Too much to do for something that probably won't worh and won't help if it does). Trying 22.4 (the physical channel is 22) is ignored (on all t TVs I tried).