impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get >
11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single >
gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.
Utter and complete bilge. What are you, like 12 years old? There were
a number of compact cars available in the 1950s and 1960s capable of
delivering 20-25 miles per gallon, some of the smaller imports even higher.
I've owned some of them myself over the years.
We don't need cadre of armed thugs (which is all that government is) dictating
every aspect of our lives. I still use full-flow toilets and shower heads,
and in general refuse to follow the dictates of the federal scumbags. They're
little more than a criminal gang -- screw the bastards.
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)
The equivalent to that 25 mpg car in the 60s is now 40 mpg.
That full size Chevy Caprice that got 11 mpg is now getting 28 mpg and
is not stinking as much as the typical 50/60s cars.
My Sonata 2.0 Turbo will beat the older 10 mpg Cameros in the 1/4 mile
and still get 28 mpg.
Thanks for the sanity check. I don't feel the need to respond to Mr. Blake,
who seems to think adults make debating points by first insulting someone.
I would say he's got it exactly backwards as to who's the pre-teen. (-:
Has a pretty good recap of how mileage has increased in the US over the last
20 years. This chart shows it graphically:
And while it's true there were some cars like VW's that got good mileage
because they were so pitifully underpowered (former Karmann Ghia owner!) the
fleet average pre-1975 was in the 11mpg range.
That site also says: <<In response to the oil price shocks of the early
1970s, Congress passed the nation's first Corporate Average Fuel Economy
(CAFE) standards in 1975. The law called for a doubling of passenger-vehicle
efficiency-to 27.5 miles per gallon (mpg)-within 10 years. The National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was also given the authority
to set a separate standard for "light trucks," which accounted for a fifth
of new vehicle sales at the time. By 2002, light trucks had surpassed cars
as the leader in light-duty vehicle sales.>>
So I am not sure where Mr. Blake is getting his information, but it's pretty
clear that Federal guidelines had an awful lot to do with boosting the
nation's average fuel economy and, as a wonder side benefit, sticking it to
the Oil Sheiks.
As you noted, the economy didn't come completely at the expense of
performance because there a plenty of cars that can really haul ass despite
getting mileage far superior to the cars of 20 years ago. The free market
can't do things like that - it has no mechanism to act in the public good
for the most part. The Pew article closed by noting the industry's response
to the CAFE standards:
<<Domestic automakers predicted that fuel economy improvements would require
a fleet primarily of subcompacts. In 1974, a Ford executive testified that
the standards could "result in a Ford product line consisting . . . of all
sub- Pinto-sized vehicles." Despite these objections, Congress passed the
law, and Ford's top seller today is its F-Series pickup.>>
I've noted a disagrement or two with Robert Green. He
does seem a bit left of myself on a few matters.
And I do agree that the US gov has changed from servants
of the people to Our Nations Leaders. Perhaps it was
always that way, but recently ever so much more so.
Have you forgotten the whiskey tax? Hamilton said it wouldn't help the
budget but would show the common people who was boss. It didn't help
the federal budget, but it did wonders for Washington's. He diversified
from marijuana into liquor. Taxed at a far lower rate than guys like
me, he ran the biggest still in North America.
I could have been on easy street if I could have sold the stuff I
distilled in the cellar in grammar school. (I told the pharmacist I was
buying the equipment for my chemistry set. The cellar was so dirty that
my parents never went down there.)
Darned government interference! I wanted to hire Robert Mitchum to
transport it. Then somebody told me Thunder Road was fiction.
My mother's uncle got caught. Every Wednesday, the warden gave him a
24-hour pass to tend the still the feds hadn't found. Naturally, the
prison staff invited him to their parties.
You know you're in socialist utopia when someone
comes along and insists that you need to use low
flow garden hose to fill a five gallon bucket, so
as to save water. Compared to a full flow hose, to
fill the same bucket.
I have the "pleasure" of driving by a congressman's house on my way to work.
Often his underground sprinklers are dumping a bazillion GPM on his lawn.
Good thing they mandated low-flow shower heads for us "little people" to use.
They've managed to save 20 millions gallons of clean water by switching to
low flows. Scientists claim that hydrogen peroxide or sludge eating enzymes
would be far safer to use than bleach.
I saw a "Dirty Jobs" episode that was filmed in the SF sewers. Apparently
they serve as home to some impressive numbers of roaches and rats. The
stink apparently gets bad only in the summer. California definitely needs
the water savings so they'll work something out, I am sure.
The only reason why they "make some money" is because the government
pays all of the collection, sorting and transportation cost. The
pittance they get paid for the material at the remanufacturing
facility is nowhere near what we paid to get it there.
As I said before, things like metal and some paper, in some places,
will make sense to transport but you can test that yourself. Go to a
scrap yard and see what they will pay you for a truckload of it.
Then balance that against what it costs for us to actually collect and
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:33:04 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
You could even pay the collection cost, since we have to do that
anyway. Just make the recycler justify the sorting and transportation
costs after it gets to the central site, Plastics may be the toughest
to justify but glass is a close second. Both need detailed sorting
before you have anything remotely useful. Plastics are broken down
into at least a half dozen categories and you almost have to read the
label to see what you have.
At least you can sort glass by color and what it comes from.
Bottles are not the same as windows even tho they both might be clear.
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