Wasn't that one of the ones they retracted?
I'm reminded of the scene from that episode where they abuse a test
subject with a large number of arbitrary recycle bins when I think about
how many ways I actually do separate what I discard...
0) Foodstuff-compost barrel where it rot or be flung all over by the crows and ravens
1) Paper,plastic,glass-transfer station, no fee
2) Plastic Redemption Value-recyc center, worth $
3) Aluminum cans-recyc center, worth $
4) Diapers (used, not by me)-transfer station, $6/can
5) Batteries-transfer station, no fee
6) Electronics-transfer station, no fee
7) Flourescent light bubs-hazmobile comes twice/year, no fee
8) Motor oil-dump into crick
9) Trash (whatever's left, almost entirely plastic wrap)-transfer station, $6/can
Piece of cake (compost barrel).
products should be made to be DURABLE rather than cheap...... mandating a long life, rather than being recycled.
the excellent example are cordless tools, the feds should require easy to replace cells in the battery pack
than cheap...... mandating a long life, rather
than being recycled.
feds should require easy to replace cells in the
I'd sure like if my cordless tools all had batt
packs that came apart with phillips screw diver.
Buy sub C nicads or nickel metals with same size
(hey, we can make C and D cells the same size).
Replace cells as they go bad. I could get used
to that idea.
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:44:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon
I don't trust the government to do any of this but it would be great
if NEMA or some other standards organization would come up with a few
standard battery configurations and challenge the manufacturers to
build to that standard.
Imagine what it would be like if every light bulb manufacturer had a
proprietary lamp base style or there were a dozen 120v power plug
configurations in common use.
That recommendation is to prevent horrific scalding accidents, especially to
children. Take a look at some of these burns and perhaps you'll agree that
slightly cleaner dishes from much hotter water might not be worth the
societal trade-off of horribly burned children.
<<Each year, approximately 3,800 injuries and 34 deaths occur in the home
due to scalding from excessively hot tap water. The majority of these
accidents involve the elderly and children under the age of five. Most
adults will suffer third-degree burns if exposed to 150-degree water for two
seconds. Burns will also occur with a six-second exposure to 140-degree
water or with a 30 second exposure to 130-degree water. Even if the
temperature is 120 degrees, a five-minute exposure could result in
I guess I am old-fashioned but if trimming the HW temperature a few degrees
saves some little kids from death or horrible maiming, my choice would be to
protect the kids and elderly who in many cases are unable to protect
Agreed. And you don't find very many kids or elderly people working in a
commercial kitchen. At least you're not supposed to find them there. So
it's not really an issue for them.
However, don't dishwasher have built-in heaters that can raise the
temperature of the wash water internally? Never owned one, so I am not sure
how they are designed. Not sure that heating water inside the unit is a
tradeoff worse than using too much water, though. (-:
Well, now, you wouldn't want to violate the
law, would you?
Surely, you don't want Jones to come back,
Squealer said, as he pranced back and forth
in his most convincing manner, wisking his
tail back and forth for emphasis.
It sounds like you're never planning to be elderly or have youngsters or
elderly people as guests. Or get so sick that you might make a serious
mistake. I hope that works out for you! (-:
But seriously, keeping the tank set lower saves energy, too.
My question is what do you gain by amping up the temperature? Most people
almost always temper the hot water with cold water in order to use it. I
dropped my HW temp way back and I haven't noticed any serious problems. So
it seems to me raising the temperature of the water is wasteful because
you're going to temper it anyway to be able to use it.
I've been reading about life in the Old West and thank my lucky stars every
day that I can turn a tap and get hot water. Back in the old days hot water
was a very precious commodity and filling a bath tub with it took enormous
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:33:21 -0400, "Robert Green"
Back in the 70s when we were first told that 140-160 hot water setting
was wasting energy, health officials were saying if you had a dish
washer, the hotter water was important to sanitize your dishes. That
idea went by the wayside in the mean time.
I wondered why they didn't heat the water in dishwashers but I have
not heard of one that actually did it. It would be pretty easy since
there is already a 1kw heating element in there but it may be a
problem because a 15a circuit might not handle the heating element and
the motor at the same time.
The "economy" setting disables the heater anyway. Dishes air dry or
just stay wet in a humid climate.
That makes sense that dishes should be cooked at the same temperature as
meat to kill microbes. I would hope those germs never got to the dish in
the first place, but I did a stint as a dishwasher at IHOP many, MANY moons
ago and there's no telling what people put on their plates. (-:
That's probably the reason because if it really is necessary to raise the
temp to 160F, then someone would have done it by now just as a selling
point. I wonder, though, since most dish/flat ware is non-porous if it is
actually just as good to thoroughly strip the surfaces of any particles. I
sent a lot of dishes back through that had dried egg on them, one of the
most mucilaginous substances in the world.
And moldy if you leave them in the dark long enough. (0:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 00:54:00 -0400, "Robert Green"
My wife has 2 commercial kitchens at the country club she runs so I am
sure I could get the real info from the chef. I just know the water in
the kitchen will scald you. They even piped a different hot water to
the hand sinks from the bathroom water heater as a safety thing.
I suppose if they would spec these to only be used on 20a circuits you
could use the 1kw heater and the pump at the same time.
I am going to see if that is an option when I get a minute
One of the reasons I don't like dish washers.
When I am using one in a house we rent on vacation I turn off all of
that "economy" stuff and the dishes come out steaming
In the service, we were instructed to use four garbage cans to clean
mess kits. The first was to scrape garbage. The second was very hot
water with soap. We were told to use a sort of toilet brush. The third
had a hot disinfectant. The fourth had hot rinse water. In my
experience, they were boiling or close to it.
The 1977 manual simply says to dip it in water with any soap or
detergent at 130 F, then rinse 30 seconds in boiling water.
It also says to dip 3 seconds in boiling water before eating. wow! Ten
times longer to rinse off the detergent than to wash for eating! That's
what I don't like about using detergent in the sink.
We were instructed to be sure to get all the grease off, because germs
could grow there that could later cause food poisoning.
That's what I like about borax. As long as there's not a lot of grease,
like my greasy fingers, it's quick and thorough removing grease and
other stuff, and it doesn't even need hot water. There could be a stray
germ on a clean surface, but I figure what won't make me sick.
My riveted stainless ladle may be my Achilles heel in kitchen
sanitation. It can't be washed in a dishwasher because it has a wooden
handle. There are crannies where the handle is riveted to the bowl.
If there's a colony of pathogens in a cranny when I dip the ladle in
stew at 140 F on the stove, and the rest of the stew sits on the stove
awhile before I think it's cool enough to refrigerate, and it cools
slowly in the refrigerator, and I don't reboil it before eating it...
dirt I didn't notice in the ladle could cause food poisoning.
Borax seems to clean that ladle better than detergent.
Oh yes... a neighbor worked at a restaurant. Stuff that didn't go
through the dishwasher was sanitized in a deep sink with hot bleach
water. The health department would measure the concentration of bleach.
Bleach won't kill germs as well if there's too much.
"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 2:03:51 AM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
If I don't have any children or elderly in my house,
why shouldn't I set the water heater wherever I like?
I bet I could get yer water hot, Cindy.
*I've always been partial to Cindy girls; I get real erotic images in my
The septic tank cleaners around here used to spray the goodies on the
farmers fields with EPA approval. Then somebody came up with the heavy
metals scare, so that stopped. Now they use who knows what and the septic
guys take their shit to is anybodies guess.
DC used to have a contractor (Bevard) who hauled away the sludge in
big red tractor trailer tanks that looked like elongated concrete
mixer tubs (because they were). They hauled it down to Southern Md,
mixed it with the silt that remained from their sand and gravel
business and after sitting in the sun until the stink went away it was
sold to developers as topsoil.
Recently we got some sod here in Florida and when it was wet, we could
clearly smell sludge in the soil. It is an unmistakable smell. I guess
I know where our sludge goes.
I have never understood where the heavy metal thing came from. Do that
many people eat heavy metals? Must be all of that Led Zeppelin they
listened to in the 70s.
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