Any landlords out there?

[Steve Barker]

I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single family houses by the end.

thanks!

[Colbyt]

The accounting function I do in Quicken and have for a number of years. I have it set up so that I can get a combined report or a single property report. No partners or LLCs so all the rental income goes into the same bank account.

The escrow account is for the deposits and expenses are charged to the property to which they belong.

Willing to share the details of how I set that up with you.

Colbyt

[the sagacious dolt]

by the end of what?

just what we need, another slum lord who doesn't pay his taxes or repair his property. stick to owning a few rentals so you can maintain them for your paying tenants.

are all your properties near the train tracks? Instead of chasing trains you should be lying on the tracks like you lie in AHR..

the sagacious dolt

[Steve Barker]

I don't really know what I did to piss you off. By the end, I meant our life. And who said anything about not paying taxes or repairing property?? And what did I lie about?

[Kyle]

Don't take it personally, Steve; it's that there are so many people out there looking to make a quick buck by purchasing real estate, making the bare minimum of repairs, and rent 'em out for top dollar. And some of 'em come in here looking for free advice on complicated issues rather than spending a few coins to hire a professional to take care of the problem properly.

I get some of the same looks simply for owning an investment home which my wife and I have fixed up and rent out. Of course, the critics would be/are silent as soon as they see the before and after photos of what we did to the house.

we would have moved into the house and rented out our current home (to get off a noisy main street) were it not for the fact the investment home doesn't have a fireplace, that's the kind of work we do.

[Steve Barker]

Thanks for the reasonable reply. My wife and I live near a town chock full of 80-100 year old house in need of much TLC. Our plan is to add one rental to our collection per year, and try to flip 2 or 3 per year for cash flow. We have no intention of being "slum lords" and have every intention of improving these homes and the area they sit in. In fact, I've already purchased electrical components to upgrade one we haven't closed on yet. . I'll check out your website, it looks like we have similar interests and intents.

[Kyle]

I would strongly advise against any so-called "simple" route like trying to keep it all in Excel or a paper accounting ledger. One property, maybe, but if you're talking about acquiring a number of properties in short order, you'll want a comprehensive package that includes both forms (legal, contractual, tracking forms and the like) as well as some sort of financial aspect that will enable you to monitor expenses, income, manage escrow for purchases of new properties and security deposits, stuff like that.

Apparently Quicken has something they've offered (I saw a Google ad) that might be of interest.

And using a search engine will be helpful, but don't use "landlord" or "landlording" as a search term, but use words like "property management" or "investment properties" and the like.

Let us know what you find and what you choose, as well - there are a few of us in this newsgroup who don't want to be slumlords but want to do a good job, and would appreciate knowing how you do.

[Bill]

If you are just interested in financial records, then think of it as a business. Use business accounting software. Best to have a CPA set up your record keeping for you so it is right from the get go.

Then get a file cabinet and have a file for each property. Might also want to have a separate file for each renter by their name on the tab. I assume you will be running background checks on each renter, using rental agreements, keeping records of deposits, etc. You could make your own forms for this and keep them in each renters file.

Since all this stuff starts with paperwork, it would be a lot more work to enter all the information into a computer. Less work to use a file/paperwork record system for each renter.

With Microsoft word, you can make a "table" with columns. 1st column renters name, 2nd column property address, 3rd column renter's phone number(s). Then you can sort this list by name, or by property address. (Highlight everything in one column and then sort it.) So you could then have a handy-dandy list of the names of renters for each property and their contact info. Just keep the list updated as renters change.

My want to find a local landlord association. Here is a national association... (search google.com for landlord association [your state])

[John~Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â]

[Steve B]

Imagine Rod Serling's voice .............

A small town. Rental houses with a history, each one a study in Americana ..............

We have vacation rentals in Las Vegas and Southern Utah. Right now, we have four. We advertise them through vrbo.com and get tons of exposure. IIRC, about $150 per year each.

Our occupancy percentages are 21 days a month.

The difference is ............ mortgage payments on each house is about $600 per month, and we charge that for a three day minimum stay. $1500 per week, or $3500 per month. Lots less wear and tear than regular renters, and way more income.

Were we to rent the same houses, we could get maybe $1300 a month, but that is eaten up by a lot of upkeep. On most rentals, all the landlord is looking for is a way to break even and make equity. But it is a slow process. We take the overage from the rentals and buy first deeds of trust in $10,000 multiples, and get from 14% to 28% on them, and they mature in six to eighteen months.

The downside is that they have to be located in good areas of town, that they have to be attractive furnished houses, but that is offset by the income. You need to be the cleaning/turn around team to get them ready for the next tenant, or have a good team of maids, gardeners, pool guys, spa guys, etc. But, as I say, the benefits far exceed the costs. So far in three years we have had no theft or broken items, save a dishwasher, coffee pot and garbage disposal that died natural deaths. A couple of service calls for the AC.

We get paid $400 to hold the dates. We get paid in full before arrival. We do it all on credit cards over the phone, or CASH ON ARRIVAL. We love that. ;-) If all is well upon departing, the guest gets back their refund within a week by electronic means. We have traded weeks with other vacation rentals owners all over the world. An even swap.

I am not saying that you should do all your properties this way, or any of them. It depends on where you are, the market, and lots of things. But consider the idea, maybe if even for a few of them. One company here in Vegas has about 500 of them. I can't imagine how much he makes off these.

You will net out a lot more money on vacation rental vs. normal rentals. Better tenants, less headaches, less drama.

Oh, yeah. To answer your question, we just use Quick Books Pro. NObody uses spread sheets any more. Even Excel would do it.

Steve

[# Fred #]

I don't use "can" retail programs because its set up one way and I couldn't change it to do things my way. At first I use a compiler to write my own simple routines then switched to a database software but I found the spreadsheet is easier and more flexible. The rental info in my spreadsheets is linked to my tax return program which is also in spreadsheet format.

Why so many houses Steve? If you don't use property management those rentals will drive you nuts not to mention Schedule E, deprecation and the ever changing tenant/landlord laws. Have you looked into REITs or TICs?

[bigjim]

[Oren]

Establish a bank account for each property; giving the address on each checking account, also the checks will be your mail address. Bring this into an accounting software like Intuit and see your tax man and your head doctor with that many headaches.

rots of ruck ree-roy

-- Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

[Steve Barker]

Thanks for the reply Fred. It's probably an unrealistic goal. We're just getting started, and will do it one at a time. The only thing we know for sure is that neither of us wants to go back to 9 to 5.

[Steve Barker]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I have printed out the replies and review them I'm sure many times.

[Doug]

Gee, other guys answering you seem to do it in a very complex ways.

I keep a composition notebook for each property (have managed 15 multi-family houses for nearly 20 years). I put expenses on the right pages and income on the right. (yep, I'm also wearing my visor and using my quill pen...) :-)

At the end of each tax year, I total the gross income for each property. I then categorize each expense item into the standard IRS categories. After doing that once, it's child's play.

Entering the data into Turbotax is easy. After the first year it does all my depreciation schedules for me, fills out form 4562, schedule E's and all that. The year end accounting and tax filing, from start to finish takes me about 6 hours.

I've kept up with most IRS regulations and probably have saved money by NOT using an accountant (Turbotax is wonderful in its ability to do what if? scenarios, to rapidly change the entire return and does year to year comparisons).

I used to use a computer but got tired of firing up the computer to enter every tiny expense. I just slide my book for that property off the shelf and make the entry in 30 seconds. All income is kept in one account (with the exception of tenant security deposits that, by law in my state, must be kept separately).

Primitive? Yep... Effective and simple? Yep...

Our society seem to be increasingly hooked on computerizing everything. Sometimes it just ain't necessary.

Doug

[the sagacious dolt]

I think you watch too much tv. get out into the real world and forget this "flipping" craze. even the idiots that host that lame show "flip this house" have many lawsuits against them and have filed for bankrupsy. It is not as easy as it seems you know.

do not listen to the man behind the curtain. it may not even be a man.

| > Don't take it personally, Steve; it's that there are so many people out | > there looking to make a quick buck by purchasing real estate, making | > the bare minimum of repairs, and rent 'em out for top dollar. And some | > of 'em come in here looking for free advice on complicated issues | > rather than spending a few coins to hire a professional to take care of | > the problem properly. | >

| > I get some of the same looks simply for owning an investment home which | > my wife and I have fixed up and rent out. Of course, the critics would | > be/are silent as soon as they see the before and after photos of what | > we did to the house.

| > Heck, we would have moved into the house and rented out our current | > home (to get off a noisy main street) were it not for the fact the | > investment home doesn't have a fireplace, that's the kind of work we do. | >

| |

[Steve Barker]

Doug, I appreciate your down to earth approach. While I'm hooked on computers, I still use a rolodex also. I can recognize when the computer is a hindrance. Also, I can see when an accountant is not necessary. I have printed out your reply and will take the advice seriously.

thanks again,

[Steve Barker]

You're a renter. Aren't you? And one that smokes and has dogs. Probably pit bulls. Your name is correct. DOLT.

[John~Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â]

Congratulations on leading "The Simple Life". I have used a similar system for twelve years and it works fine.

In my case I use a "Six Column Analysis Pad" that I get at Office Creepo. I list the properties down the side and label the columns exactly like the 1040 Schedule E, i.e. Rent, Utilities, Supplies, Repairs, Cleaning&Maintenance, etc. I have a page for each month and page 13 is a "Recap" which includes annual totals that go directly into Turbo Tax.

I also have a dedicated credit card account that is used solely for rental property purchases. I have the ultimate high tech system to organize purchase receipts; it's called a plastic shoebox. There is a binder clip on the edge of the box that holds cash receipts for $1.98 purchases that aren't worth using plastic for. When I accumulate a pile of them, I total them, staple them together, write myself a check and toss them in the box.

I tried MYOB and Quicken, but it was a hassle for only a few entries a month. The K-I-S-S principle works just fine for me.

John